Afghanistan operation has succeeded
"Shame on you, Matthew Hooton. Advocating assassinations and kidnappings shows you have no respect for Western values such as the rule of law and due process"
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Image of NZ soldiers in Afghanistan courtesy ISAF Public Affairs.
OPENING SALVO
Two more young men are dead prompting legitimate questions about whether New Zealand’s commitment in Afghanistan has been worth it.
There was a potential alternative path after September 11, 2001.
That would have been to regard the terrorist atrocities not as a military attack, comparable with Pearl Harbour, but as an unprecedented criminal act, comparable with, albeit much larger than, Timothy McVeigh’s bombing in Oklahoma.
Political leaders would certainly have emphasised that “we’re coming to get you”, but would also have spoken of the superiority of Western values such as the rule of law and due process over the primitive barbarism of fanatical Islamism.
The FBI would have been the lead agency, not the Department of Defence. The CIA and other intelligence agencies would obviously have been heavily involved, spreading agents throughout the Middle East and South Asia, infiltrating terrorist groups. Assassinations would certainly have occurred, but kidnappings would have been preferred and, where plausible, old-fashioned extradition.
Something like Guantanamo Bay would probably still have been needed, and enhanced interrogations, but the goal would have been a Nuremburg-type trial of the accused not the conquest of territory. The US and its allies would not have had to engage in the nation-building that George W Bush so derided during the 2000 presidential campaign.
Few in the West were prepared to advocate this path. In New Zealand, an exception was elements of the Alliance Party, then in government with Helen Clark. The party ended up splitting over the issue, with leader Jim Anderton – who had been acting prime minister on 9/11 – dismissing those who criticised his support for the US strategy with the Bush-esque phrase: “It happened on my watch.”
This of course is all academic now. It was not the path taken. In any case, it wasn’t feasible.
In 2001, twelve years after the end of the Cold War, the US intelligence community still had plenty of fluent Russian speakers, but just two fluent Arabic speakers. The idea of FBI and CIA agents infiltrating terrorist groups around the world to bring home the accused was fanciful.
Al Qaeda incapacitated
The US invaded Afghanistan on October 7, 2001, nearly 11 years ago. It is fashionable to point out that that is longer than the first and second world wars combined, and that the US managed to subjugate Germany twice in the time it has failed to do the same to Afghani warlords.
The fashionable liberal elite also argue that nothing has been achieved except propping up a corrupt regime that is less effective than the Taliban in suppressing opium production, so that the two soldiers who died this week did so in vain, as part of a failed adventure.
That would be quite wrong.
The primary responsibility of the leaders of the US and its allies is the safety and security of their own people. The liberal elite tell us that the invasion and occupation of Afghanistan has failed even with that, saying it has strengthened and emboldened Al Qaeda.
As usual with the liberal elite, the data does not support their assertions.
It is simply part of the historical record that Al Qaeda is far weaker today than before the invasion and the other operations in the Middle East, Africa and elsewhere.
In the 1990s and 2000, Al Qaeda successfully bombed the World Trade Centre in New York, US embassies in Africa and even a US destroyer, the USS Cole.
In 2001, it could kill nearly 3000 people in the US, including in the very headquarters of its military.
In 2002, its wider network killed over 200 people, including 88 Australians and three New Zealanders, doing nothing wrong except preferring the bikini over the burqua while on holiday in Bali.
In 2004 and 2005, it killed 191 in Madrid and 52 in London.
Since then, it has been incapable of launching a single significant attack against the West. Its leader did not, alas, suffer the same indignity as Saddam Hussein of being dragged out of a hole, was stuck in a Pakistani compound before being killed by the Americans.
In terms of improving the security of New Yorkers, Londoners or Spaniards wanting to go to work, or Kiwis and Aussies wanting to hang out at a bar at the beach, or anyone else who prefers the Western way of life over Sharia law, the invasion of Afghanistan has been an overwhelming success.
In addition to the primary objective of security, and after decades of horror, including the Soviet invasion and the worse terrors of the Taliban, something is finally being done – as our soldiers were doing – to try to make life better for the villagers of Afghanistan, including letting girls learn to read and write without having acid sprayed in their faces.
These efforts have not been as successful as might have been hoped. As in any large endeavour, terrible bungles have occurred. But the soldiers who died this week did so as part of a noble and successful cause.
Shame on anyone who says otherwise.
























Comments and questions33
What has been the death toll of the war on terror? I would have thought that the first question to answer when judging the success of this noble cause.
Unfortunately the Taliban are not working to a limited time frame like the allies are. They are in Afghanistan for the long haul. Within five years the country will be back in their control.
Shame on you, Matthew Hooton. Advocating assassinations and kidnappings shows you have no respect for the 'superiority of Western values such as the rule of law and due process'. Not only that, you write in favour of indefinite detention without charges and the use of torture of detainees. I don't say this often, in fact I don't think I've ever said it to anyone before but I'll say it again: shame on you, Matthew Hooton.
It is peace and the protections of due process that are 'a noble and successful cause.' This cause does not require or allow assisinations, kidnappings, torture, indefinite detention without charges, standing armies or conquest of territory by super-powers and empires.
the US doesnt respect the rule of law or due process.... rumsfiled applied for immunity from proscution for his troop under the geneva conv. about 8 months before abu garhib photos hit the web. As for due process they can kidnap and hold you indefinitely without trail or charge.... is this the freedom and democracy that we all stand for is that why NZ boys are over there?
Typical naive nonsense written from the safety of our Pacific backwater.
I have no issue at all with murdering psychopaths caught in the act of plotting and preparing terrorist outrages being spared the stresses of a trial.
(Cue sound of bien pensants in Ponsonby choking on their chardonnay.)
To quote the admirable Col Jessup: "You can't handle the truth ..."
Poor Davy....whining like a jet engine. If you are the same David Hillary I've met before, you are the simplistic bore that goes around complaining about the high level of abortion in New Zealand.
Read what Hooton said. He did not advocate assassinations or kidnappings, he merely wrote that it has occurred.
war on terror is a fake war.... Afghanistan and Iraq have paid a significant human price for this conquest of resource and geopolitical positioning.
The afghan people i would say have successfully defeated 2 super powers over 3 decades of war, given that the US is now negotiating witht he taliban.
9/11 was a false flag just goto AE911truth.org for the cold hard engineering facts.
you go to war to get shot; one can never bet an army that has no concept of life - our boys have all the protection i.e. tanks , night googles, helments, radio's etc and even drones - whereas they have nothing - to be frank they are the real soldier,
Whatever the reasons or the out come, I feel great respect and pride for our brave men and women who put their lives on the line in this conflict.
i guess the mindset of pride in murder and torture is why the US has so many proud americans shooting people at churches and cinemas....
'merica !!
Nice cheerful article,Mathew;I would very much like to believe that we have made a difference.
Regretfully, my gut tells me that our efforts will have made no difference at all. I fear that as soon as we leave, the respective parties in that sad country will just go back to fighting the same war that has been raging for decades if not centuries
I sincerely hope I am wrong!
liberte
The Teleban are managed by the Pakistani secret service and financed by a combination of financial aid from USA to Pakistan and the whahabist faithful (historicaly Saudi), The teleban fighters mostly come from the religious schools sponsored by the Wahabists, prior to Musashariffes coup Pakistan ( Bhuto) were making a reasonable effort to educate their poor , after the Military coup, the money spent on education and health went to the Pakistani military elite and armed forces, religiouse schools filled the education gap. Pakisan wants to keep the western powers fighting in Afghanistan , that way they keep gettin US financial and military support . If the west pulled out of Afghanistan , the Pakistanis would loose much of thier interest in it but would keep it destabliised as they are doing, Pakistans real interest is Kashmere and thier enemy India. No money = no threat to the west.
This would be credible if it was written by a non trough feeder.
My involvement in Afghanistan is not military but I can say that the people I am working are genuine in trying to improve the running of the government and its services. Their institutional culture is, however, very central-focused and that does not make for fast progress. But we are trying - together. This is not to deny the issue of corruption and the dangers from "the bad guys". (But corruption is not unique to Central Asia, as people who work in the South Pacific can attest.) We remain hopeful for positive outcomes, to the benefit of all Afghanistan, not (just) the warlords.
they are trying to woo the devastated and defected solders in battlefield like the Grand ma tells the notional stories to Kids
they are trying to woo the devastated and defected solders in battlefield like the Grand ma tells the notional stories to Kids
Hopefully our men and women in Afghanistan will hunt down whoever murdered our boys and show them what happens to savages who murder New Zealanders
Al Qaeda now controls a significant part of Saharan Africa, including military bases, airfields and the odd capital city or two, after hijacking a civil war there. We shouldn't kid ourselves that we have seen the last of actions against this group.
Last time I looked, Afghanistan was located between China and juicy oil fields of Iran. If I were playing a game of Risk, that would be a good place to hold in order to keep China out of the Gulf.
The United States didn't "subjugate" Germany in WW1. Germany broke through French lines and found themselves in disarray, giving the Allies an opportunity to beat them back. Realizing they would be unable to continue against the production base of Britain and the US, the German army sued for peace without surrendering Berlin. And really to say that the US "subjugated" Germany in WW2 is a little overblown, given that Berlin was taken by the Russians. Really if you're going to comment on warfare you should know a bit more about its history.
An excellent piece of writing.
The 9/11 attacks was an act of war, not on the United States but on western democracy.
New Zealand should be stand and be counted.
You do not fight a war with lawyers. You fight it with soldiers.
Bang on the money as usual Matthew Hooton, great stuff.
NBR: "These efforts have not been as successful as might have been hoped. As in any large endeavour, terrible bungles have occurred. But the soldiers who died this week did so as part of a noble and successful cause."
I detect a contradiction-in-terms: On the one hand, the "success" has fallen short of expectations; but on the other, you state it without any equivocation, because "effort" is interlinked with "outcome". As to their deaths, there could be some question as to the other half of the last sentence's conjunction.
NBR: " Shame on anyone who says otherwise."
We sense your patriotic passion. But it has the presumptive "begging the question" ring to it, with: "You're Either for Me or Agin Me". Sounds somewhat judgmental, moralistic and coercive in tone. Someone should be able to express a different viewpoint, without being made to feel ignoble about it.
Well done Mathew......
All power to America and its western allies. I enjoy living in this part of the free world. Those who don't like what is going on are very welcome to pack a tent and go and live with the Taleban - I'm sure they will enjoy it..!
It is pretty hard to get good information but from what I can find if you compare the education sector before, during and now after the Taliban regime, I can't help but feel that though it might be only a temporary respite the availability of education to the children of Afghanistan will hopefully in the future prevail . I that vein, though it is hard to attribute any immediate success (as people always want to see) that efforts may eventually prevail in the long game in this country. I think the immediate results show some hope for this long term success.
I just wonder at the desperation and horror that these children and their families will face when our countries all pull out.
I think that there has been some success not only in the military sense but through a small period of liberation of ideas.
Congrats again Mr Hooton for reflecting the mood and thoughts of so many. It is galling that the civilised world when dragged into conflict seems to be always handicapped by our moral high ground whereby those who wish to destroy us play by different rules. I agree totally that despite all predictions by the liberal pacifist set Afghanistan has been worthwhile and successful. I am not convinced that a retreat now is wise as some countries with their cruel and despotic human rights idealogies should be conquered for generations before they deserve an independant place on the world stage again.
I expect the families of most of the quarter of a million casualties of the war on terror probably disagree. The immense cost in lives and dollars to achieve very little to date suggests there must have been better solutions - and that after all that we are left still needing to find them.
The current Afghan admin is so irredeemably corrupt, that the war effort amounts to little more than "finger in the dyke" stuff.
"evil prevails when good men do nothing"
The Afghan situation provides a microcosm as to America's engagement in Vietnam. You would have a hard time, convincing the families of the 47,000 military personnel, that they gave their lives for a "noble cause".
More, like LBJ's folly.
" In 2001, twelve years after the end of the Cold War, the US intelligence community still had plenty of fluent Russian speakers, but just two fluent Arabic speakers".
I find this comment hard to believe. The US has had a long standing interest in the Middle East going back decades, and surely there must have been more than "just two fluent Arabic speakers" in the entire US intelligence community.
How can you justify this comment?? Are you able to give sources??
Well said Matthew.
There are two choices - maintain western civilisation or don't. Deomcracy costs.
Helen's culture of cowardice may have bought her an office at the UN and introduced "sharia creep" throughout Mt Roskill ... but times change. The internet lets Kiwis see alternative viewpoints around the world just like it lets the oppressed majorities in Syria, Libya and Iran. People just won't put up with armchair liberal b.s propping up despots anymore.
Let those who think western civilisation should not be fought for leave our country and go where haters of the west thrive. But know this, the country that gave birth to the Maori Battalion will not stay on the sidelines when others need our help.
Maori Battalion march to victory
Maori Battalion staunch and true
Maori Battalion march to glory
Take the honour of the people with you
We will march, march, march to the enemy
And we'll fight right to the end.
For God! For King! And for Country!
AU - E! Ake, ake, kia kaha e!