Police were ‘incompetent, inept’ – Dotcom defence
"Not surprised. The STG had a touch of the Urewera fever."
Featured commentKim Dotcom’s defence lawyer has labelled the police raid on the internet millionaire’s mansion in January “woefully incompetent.”
At a hearing at the Auckland High Court this week Paul Davison, QC, has been trying to prove the police raid was unreasonable and over-the-top.
Under questioning by Mr Davison, Detective Inspector Grant Wormald confirmed police did not mention in the search warrant that they would be using the special tactics group (STG) or the armed offenders squad.
Mr Wormald says police were under no legal obligation to disclose that information, but Mr Davison suggested had the judge known they would be so forceful, he might have attached conditions to the warrant.
Mr Davison says the raid was an “inept performance by the New Zealand police at all stages and at all levels of this operation.
“That extends to those who planned, approved, and executed this operation.
“It reveals that those responsible for the evaluation of the factors for and against the deployment of this tactic are shown to have been deficient in their judgment.”
Mr Davison says the ones who bore the brunt of this was Mr Dotcom, his wife, and their household.
“Their rights to be free from unreasonable search and seizure were cast aside while you single-mindedly executed such a warrant.”
The hearing is expected to conclude today, after which the Crown and the defence will file submissions to Justice Helen Winkelmann on whether any remedies should be given to Mr Dotcom.
UPDATE 1pm: The Crown has abandoned efforts to keep certain documents relating to the Kim Dotcom raid a secret.
Chief High Court judge Helen WIlkelmann yesterday ruled suppression was lifted on some police documents about the raid on Mr Dotcom’s mansion, but the Crown said it would appeal that decision.
It said if the documents, which include details of how police came to view Mr Dotcom as a dangerous target, were made public then future police operations could be hampered.
An urgent hearing was to be held at the Court of Appeal on Monday, but today Crown lawyer John Pike told Justice Winkelmann the Crown had abandoned the appeal.
He gave no reason for the decision.
The documents will now be released, but with the name of a certain police officer deleted.
Meanwhile, Mr Dotcom’s Queen’s counsel, Paul Davison, is continuing to question Detective Inspector Grant Wormald about why the police employed the special tactics group (STG) when they executed the raid.
He is accusing the police of being over-the-top by using two helicopters and officers armed with semi-automatic weapons to search the house.
Mr Wormald confirmed the FBI had told him Mr Dotcom might have had a device with which he could delete data from computer servers around the world at the push of a button.
Mr Davison has questioned that as a reason to use the STG, suggesting that to stop Mr Dotcom executing a deleting process he would have had to be detained within seconds, not minutes, as was the case during the raid.
The use of armed officers was also unnecessary because information from police officers who had previously been at Mr Dotcom’s mansion indicated security at the property was lax, says Mr Davison.
Mr Wormald says that information also includes warnings from the officers, including phrases such as, ‘don’t underestimate these guys.’
Yesterday, Mr Wormald admitted police anticipated their appoach to the raid could be seen by the public as "overzealous".
callison@nbr.co.nz
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Comments and questions136
Not surprised. The STG had a touch of the Urewera fever.
Such amazing sophisticated equipment used in Urewera case to come up with separate video recording and separate sound effect. Video recording could be for real, but the sound could've been recorded from anywhere...like a war or cowboy movie. I'm sure this would have been piece of cake for Dotcom to merge the two files into one lol
This was clearly showing off to the US FBI people that where on the ground leading this "investigation".
We need stronger leaders like Lange was that could stand up for what was right.
Ok then you walk in and arrest a man with a loaded shotgun and a security team with your two hands.
Do you walk around your house with an illegally sawn off loaded shot gun?
Yeah good point, i hadnt thought of that. I hadnt heard that since the arrrest, i wonder why thats not on the media too.
What an imagination you have. Maybe I best ask Poirot or Morse how he would have done it. Armoured personnel carrier perhaps?
ever had a shotgun pointed in your face?
No, i thought not, so stop criticising them. and yes an armoured car was required in Napier when a warrant went wrong at a house where a man had illegal weaponary and the policeman was shot dead, so sort your irrational comments out, Dotcom was armed so stg was required, fullstop.
Fullstop nothing, Napier sad case, but dotcom had police invited in and wandering around in the days earlier and no threat indicated. As much as you would love to paint him a monstrous mexican drug lord with a paid army of killers I think you need to read the actual evidence slowly coming out in the courts first. Dont forget about the shopkeeper bleeding to death while customers wandered in and out and offenders reported as gone. Reflect on that day also perhaps.
Exactly!, I totally agree if the Ambulance were allowed to get in there and do their job, instead of being obstructed by Police, the shopkeeper would have had a chance to live. If it were one of them officers in the same situation, it would have been a different story...clearly shows double standards for different category - ** shopkeeper = low priority **police officer = high priority **
Just giving a wee example of the Police at the Pike River blast.. I often wonder who put the Police in charge? there are real experienced people who know their job and are familiar with sophisticated robots to check the methane gas level underground and safety before moving in and out to recover bodies. This is like sending police officers to put out a building on fire and telling the fire officers "you stand by, because we can do your job better lol
Several times ...and you?
Thats why I demand a far higher standard of those paid to protect me and my family (in this lovely safe 'unarmed' paradise when I'm not allowed to carry myself) than the present force demonstrates on occassions.
Just remember there are many places where civilised folk pay for protection from armed private response units instead of the police. Heaven forbid we get to that stage, but when the law gets muddied by those in uniform it can go downhill real fast.
Yes once.
So what kind of high standard did you want them to use against armed dotcom with his sawn off shotgun?
How about knowing where the safe room was for starters and having to ask how to open the unlocked door instead of trying to get up a dumb waiter. Crikey this is going to make a good book. Shame Peter Sellers chasing the Pink Panther isn't still with us. Theres another Hollywood winner !
It wasn't a loaded shotgun, it was LOCKED, IN, A, SAFE.
Wrong it was in his safe room with him
no bud, you are wrong, there is a gun safe in the safe room. It was locked in that. Police have not charged anyone over the 2 guns on the property. If there was an issue with the guns they would have jumped all over him for that.
See you fall down on the detail -
"Wrong it was in his safe room with him"
What you forgot to say was .....it was in the unlocked safe room with him in a locked gun safe well away from where he was with hands up when the police were escorted into the room and the gun in any case was not sawn off but a legal stock manufactured length and loaded with 2x rubber bullets before live rounds.
thanks, those details are correct, was looking for the number of preloaded runner bullets. Amazing how the NBR article towed the line on the gun story
To correct you He was charged with that and is now charged with other firearm charges
http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/kim-dotcom-s-head-security-back-in-court-4715249
Rubber bullets then live rounds is very sinister
Two warning shots then bang!
That is also highly illegal, so the cops were justified in having concerns about firearms then werent they -case closed.
Hi Ive read that article. There are firearm charges so i think the guy saying that about there being firearm concerns is correct. I still think dotcom shouldnt of had his company shut down like that though
I dont think there is any (legal) issue with going over the top. The real question is were they legally allowed to go in in the first place.
What shocked me most from yesterday's NZ Police testimony (I dropped into the Court for a quick look) was that NZ Police decided early on that all electronic devices they seized would just be handed over to the FBI, for the FBI to conduct their own forensic examination. The forensic review was initially done at NZ Police's crime lab. But the testimony was that because NZ Police were too busy on other things to deal with what they had seized, the anslysis, cloning etc was done by FBI agents without any involvement or oversight from NZ Police. The evidence given was that NZ Police were therefore completely unaware that the FBI had taken clones from the crime lab and sent them to the US.
This situation makes me feel sick - to think the Police would allow electronic evidence to be released to the FBI in the way they did. I think we are likely to see more shocking revelations come from the lifting of suppression orders on Police documents.
The only upside is that the illegal status of the search warrant will strangle the case resulting in all charges being dropped. Lets not forget Kim Dotcom is likely to seek compensation for personal and business damages. When this happens I wonder of the Police will pass the bill onto the FBI?
Well played to Mr Dotcom and his PR team for shifting all media attention away from the case in question, onto a frenzy about the way the 'poor man' was handled. Can we please just get on with it?
Totally agree. This guy will have a PR team guiding him on how to portray himself in the media and what to say. He has a lot of the public (echoed by sentiments on here) wrapped around his finger, shifting all the focus away from the real issue. Sure, let's ignore the photos of him posing with guns, ignore his speeding tickets at ridiculous speeds, ignore his previous fraud convictions, ignore the fact his head of security is associated to the Head Hunters gang, and just feel sorry for the guy for being picked on by Police who really have nothing better to do than put on a show for the FBI.
Imagine the cost of such a winning PR team on top of everything else especially when you have been impoverished before being found guilty of any charge. All we need now is NZ Crown Law to engage a PR team also but I guess they have access to more immediate money to teach the public the error of our ways. Lets call it a Ministry of Propaganda.
This all goes back to a stupid lobbying/bribery system that put heat on him in the first place.
The music industry had full access to all the files on dot coms servers, his servers had less than .1% movie and music files, Youtube, Flickr, are in the same boat. The difference is.........?
well done to the FBI really, they seem to have deceived the slower half of New Zealanders.
And many of the "slower half" unfortunately seem to be in positions of power and responsibility.
Yeah put the Attorney General definitely in the slower half contender, what a fool to stuff up those critical documents
I suspect that the Crown abandoned their planned appeal because Judge W is not caving under the pressure to tow the line. Go Judge W! Someone has to defend the legal system from abuse.
The NZ Police are looking somwhat stupid at this point in time.
Not the police,they acted under Crown Law directions right from the head of it, so its Chris Finlayson who looks stupid
Yes agreed Chris looks like a real dingbat.
Dotcom better hope he wins as his music career isnt going anywhere
Yesterday, Mr Wormald admitted police anticipated their appoach to the raid could be seen by the public as "overzealous".
An understatement to beat all others.
But no lessons to be learned from hindsight, because they have no foresight.
In this whole affair our police/politicians have been acting under the instructions of the FBI.
We would hope that in future cases our people exercise a bit more independent thought.
liberte
The real question is 'whose instruction was the FBI acting under?'
There's no doubt that came right from the political top. Nothing like this would happen without a White House ok, and most likely a push to start it off in the first place.
This all originates from the US political campaign funding provided by Hollywood.
And we all know who the Hollywood moguls are. And we do know who John Key is.
NZ Police are looking stupid right now, agree they have gone over the top such use of power can get to their heads
Yeah stupid is too mild a word to use. Was our NZ 's NYPD trying to impress FBI who was right behind them or what was the real action packed raid about, when days before a police officer was at the mansion with a hidden camera checking out every room and the occupants. Surely the police would have known that Dotcom had no access to his server by the time of the raid. If police didn't know then their communications, failed them BIG time. The only thing blocking the gate was one friendly security guard who didn't put up a fight lol
"Police were ‘incompetent, inept’ – Dotcom defence"
I don't know about that? They got you didn't they?
Now what country are you going to buy entry into?
How about Syria?
They? It needed a solitary constable in a patrol car, to knock on Kim's door and request that he accompany him to the station. That's all that was required. But, no, our boys-in-blue just had to bathe themselves in glory, in a way that would make shame a randy peacock in all his feathered splendour.
Actually, turkeys.
Ok John, you think that about Jan Molenaar in Napier too?I bet you live in a white picked fenced house where the insects and the birds sing each other to sleep
Clearly you have some inside info about this whole case, or you were present at all the briefings about him, otherwise you wouldn't be making such stupid comments. Maybe you should join the police and see how far you get with this kind of approach before someone knocks you out.
JM, you are sounding an idiot, these were supposed to be our most highly trained officers, yet they can't control their tempers ? If the police were professional they would not use violence. On one hand we are trying to stop parents smacking kids but the police use violence everywhere. and a way over the top hollywood inspired raid, actually Syria might be a more honest country. Ive lost my confidence in the NZ police, bunch of thugs at the highest level
Me an idiot do you think that when you come across a man with a loaded sawn off shotgun you dont restrain him on the ground so he cant move until you a sure he has no concealed weapon.
You are sounding like a brainwashed campbell live cretan
ok well now your being one, lets get this right : he didn't have a loaded sawn off shotgun with him, and no one had guns pointed at them except the nurses, nannies, kids and women but that's OK because that's for the protection of the police, even though the day before it was ok to send an unarmed officer around their with a hidden camera. If he was that dangerous that Orewa cop must be a real hero.
someone once said never argue with an idiot as not everyone will be able to tell the difference, I hope this dialogue helps
Mate! piece the main facts mentioned in the courtroom before you comment - Dotcom sat in an unlocked strong room behind a pillar scared. He could have locked the strongroom, but did not. There is a loaded gun locked in the strongroom with the key inside the same cabinet. There's no mention of him even going near the cabinet where gun was kept. Dotcom waited inside for whoever outside the door to come and get him. When the two STG officers entered the room, Dotcom had his hands up with his open palms facing the officers and away from his body and pocket. I'm not a trained STG officer, but I'd work out immediately if someone standing and facing me in that position is surrendering not doing a haka you fool. There was no need for a punch in the face, a knee in the ribs, booted while going down and hand stood on with boots before re-straining KD. What gets me two STG officers are present, one officer claims Dotcom co-operated and the other claims Dotcom resisted arrest...there you go, police can't even match their story to get their part right, so which officer is telling the truth? and which one is not? and the one telling liars should be done for perjury
Dotcoms own lawyer said the gunsafe was open. Why do you think it was open then?
In theory an open gun safe means nothing as Dotcom was nowhere near the gun and he knows better, regardless of whether it was an intruder or any being, he would not be stupid to used the gun anyway as he'll be risking his own life and the lives of every soul in his household. Some sad story's here where intruder's know their rights and the victim gets charged for defending himself in his own home
Blowtorch how come you know Dotcom so well to know that he knows better? Have you spent quite some time with him?
Jan Molenaar' friend, whom Jan shot, thought beforehand that Jan was a good guy.
So how were the police to make that assumption that Dotcom wouldnt go for the firearms when they went in?
No it's all common sense, don't need to know Dotcom, just need grey matter between your ears huh!, Put yourself in Dotcom's shoes that very moment, the only one on his side was the dumb waiter lol. Dotcom used his instincts by not taking the gun and risking his own life and the lives of his household. Besides if Dotcom was so anti police why would he invite a police officer to his home days before the raid which yielded fresh video of the property inside and out - why wasn't this shown to the STG before the raid?. Did Jan Molenaar ever invite police officers to his home before the raid? In case you don't know the answer is "no" In Jan's case three experienced officers. one with AOS experience were serving a drug warrant. If they had assumed there would be armed resistance, they would have taken along backup. Police were unaware of his arsenal of semi automatic rifles and pump action shotguns - a failure of the firearms records. Ag system. However can't compare these two raids - very different scenario
With the trial of Gu already over, has anyone drawn the parallel that these seemingly trumped up charges might appear this way because they really are trumped up? Is a copyright and racketeering crime worth all this trouble, including the involvement of a government agency so secret we don't even know its name?
If this matter goes further than what it already has, it will linger before the Courts (US and NZ) for years, and the only winners will be the lawyers. Ironically, the whole matter will become a nullity (if it isn’t already) by the speed-of-light advances in technology. I strongly resent my hard earned taxes been spent on the continuing, idiotic, pointless and reckless pursuit of this matter, by NZ. It needs to end now.
hang on. the guy was armed, hired professional security and has displayed violent anti establishment tendencies...
???!!!???
".. has displayed violent anti establishment tendencies..."
He has at that -- by paying over $600K to put on a "violent" fireworks display at the viaduct.
Yeah good on Dotcom for funding the fire works display which was one of the best ever, but what was violent is that John Banks and his wife met up with Dotcom and his wife, Mona where a meeting was scheduled to be held at Dotcom's home and John Banks denied he knew K D's phone number and later can't re-call the helicopter ride to KD's mansion and can't re-call asking KD to split two payments from $50,000.00 down two $25,000.00 cheques being donations for JB's campaign that made anonymous and was not disclosed until he got snapped out. But hey! even though Banks can't re-call anything, why is he still there? Why wasn't he quizzed like Winston P and Taito Field P the only violent display showing is JB for the National Party
Dumb comment, having spent time in asia there are crims who will kidnap and worse for anyone perceived as wealthy and that includes tourists.
So right, and here is a wee reminder to those lovers of crims who buy/bribe their way into NZ.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dotcom
JM you really come across as envious and biased. Get your facts right - there are top officials in this government who knew Dotcom's criminal and financial history, but still accepted him into NZ. ..that's cool! we need his millions in government bonds, brains, more of his wealth and high tech connections. In this case the NZ Police has got more wrong so far to this point, so too many wrongs cannot make right huh. You should be proud Dotcom chose NZ to make his new home, as with that kind of wealth he could chose to live anywhere in the world.
The reality is when things were looking good the NZ Government wanted Dotcom's money. When the US pressured our Officials & NZ Police, they sold him out . Now it's become a political football on NZ taxpayers expenses
Blow torch its not the police that got it wrong its Crown Law. They are appealing that.The fact the STG went in is just a waste of court time,he had an illegal gun and the police were right to be cautious. What was wrong was what the attorney general wrote up for the arrest warrant after liasing with the FBI, thats not the polices fault
I'm confused....who had an illegal gun?
allegedly-the head of security is in court over it
Sorry still confused - So it wasn't dotcom with an illegal gun? I heard everyone was asleep so where was this security person, surely the police knew?
Yeah crown law to a certain degree, but the police chose to do the raid on Dotcom that way. Are STG involved in all raids where firearms are present and suspects have a history of violence? If not? why not? Our police officers can't just take FBI's word as gospel about a doomsday gadget - did a police dog eat it along with the valid search warrant? lol Also Dotcom's puku of mass destruction was not a threat to arresting officers...what were our boys in blue thinking? and how do they justify their master moves when the first four STG officers all ran to the front door, followed by five more. What a smart move, if they expected armed resistance from inside... boohoo!! to their liars and agenda
What a shame everybody thinks so badly of our Police Force and it was all done for a show, if things had not gone right you would be the same people on here running them down. Its sad to see the lack of respect for Law and Goverment in the wonderful Country we live in.
You need a spot on Campbell Live to balance Johns totally unbalanced pro Dotcom tirades. I dont think John is unwell, he cried on the show when mentioning Valerie Adams the other night. A shame as his program has improved since a year or so ago but this is just biased BS
It all started when the politicians combined traffic and police, then those same politicians threw out all those old useful laws that took hundreds of years to perfect and then the country went all PC....ask any old copper what they think of the present lot.
lack of respect for the law ? How about innocent UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY.
Im sorry to all those whom want to bag the police but Dotcom had a sawn off and loaded shotgun in the safe house with him. Anyone see what the police went through in Napier, do you think they should of gone in with the possiblity of that happening again? The media isnt telling facts balanced at all
quite correct - our boys in blue need the support of every right thinking new zealander, not opprobrium dumped on them by those with a personal axe to grind....they were after all only doing the bidding of their political masters
What axe to grind? We have just witnessed another and another and another episode of dumb & dumber. Incompetence starts at the very top and our exhorbitant taxes paid demands a refocus on priorities and methods. If we cant get the talent locally then best we import a few thousand from across the ditch or UK. Maybe its time for the public to vote on a police commissioner in each local body election?
Your only sensible line was to blame their "political masters".
Why do the Police need to be blamed, what did they do wrong?
The Crown Law office stuffed up the warrants and Dotcom had a shotgun in his room with him so you cant blame the stg for going in then do you?
Would you want to be an unarmed officer with an illegalsawn off shotgun pointed at you?
Il vote you in as police commissioner just to see you try and stop a bank robbery with only your police torch and cuffs.
Just what we need - more whingeing poms in uniform.
i will support our police when they act less like gung-ho muppets and more like professional law-enforcement personnel.
agreed, but they are loosing support fast - they need to think first . Anyone can see it's a set up, shame on the FBI, NZ Govt and NZ police, they have put the whole country in danger, we don't want helicopters and guns, this is New Zealand. anyone who Knows dot com would have to agree that he is a non violent person. The FBI has told lie after lie " He has a device to delete web servers off the web" - really ? So do I , I'm typing this on it.
So you know Dotcom then?
how many years?
Ever got him to raise his voice?
then why did they send a policeman around the day prior, without any protection at all ?
dot come WAS NOT ARMED, There was a gun IN a LOCKED SAFE. Get your facts right, media sensationalised this , and someone aught to ask who organised the media beat up. Yes our police can be bought but so can our (pfft) media
It was also owned by Tempero who had a licence for it. Never let the facts get in the way of a bad story...for the police.
Sorry Paul Marsden but it is illegal in NZ to have a sawn off shotgun so keep your lies to yourself please
Under what statute is it illegal to have a sawn off shot gun, if it was illegal Tempero would not have had a licence for it, there was no problem with the ownership of the gun
No shot gun can be sawn off in NZ, it makes it more useful for illegal purposes such as bank robberys
it was the media that suggest ed the gun was sawn off and " in the same room" as dot com. Dot com had not touched the gun, great that you belong in the gullable half of NZers if you believe all this hype. Remember in the same week we are plucking truth tellers out of communities and throwing them in prisons, lol USA is loooooosing
well why are you reading the NBR as they wrote that yesterday too!
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dotcom-police-raid-under-scrutiny-court-ca-125265
You are so wrong read this article.
Dotcom -safe room-loaded gun
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/dotcom-police-raid-under-scrutiny-court-ca-125265
A loaded firearm is very sinister
Surveillance, its not like he was trying to arrest him which would cause him to go on the defense
It was probably Inspector Clouseau of the Surete surveilling the cup cakes for beumes and couldn't possibly reveal himself for an arrest at that stage would have blown up his cover.
funny, I think when a company bribes a government with money ad has them shut down a website illegally, seize assests illegally all without a trial, that's sinister. dot com did not touch the gun, the gun was locked in a dam safe, this came out in court, the media got it wrong
I agree with you on the first point but i disagree with you about the gun in a safe.
From everything ive read it was shortened and loaded and near him.
If you can paste a link to a reputable article which shows the facts you say came out in court, im happy to change my mind about it
Reputable sources maybe not, but I accept that police dropped charges re the shotgun thats causing everyone so much angst.
One News 8 Mar 2012 -
"One of three firearms charges against Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom's head of security has been dropped in the North Shore District Court this morning.
Police have dropped a charge of unlawfully possessing an semi-automatic shotgun against Wayne Tempero.
Tempero has elected trial by jury for the other two charges, of possession of a pistol for an unlawful purpose."
One News 30 Mar 2012 -
"Megaupload founder Kim Dotcom's head of security has reappeared in North Shore District Court today on two firearms charges.
Wayne Tempero originally faced three firearms charges following the police raids of Dotcom's $30 million rented mansion in Coatesville, Auckland in January.
In North Shore District Court earlier this month, police dropped a charge against him of unlawfully possessing a semi-automatic shotgun.
Community magistrate Diane Hale indicated today that Tempero, who has worked for Dotcom for two years, is seeking a jury trial.
Tempero did not make a plea today and is on bail until May 10.
Tempero told media outside court on March 8 he would fight the charges and intended to plead not guilty."
Well if hes facing firearm charges i think it justifies the stg. But regarding the warrants against Mr Dotcom i think Chris Finlayson has a lot to answer for but i dont think Chris is capable enough too respond.
Thats Crown Laws fault, these Crown Law people get paid over $400 an hour in court, they probably stuffed up on purpose to give themselves more hours
Going by the events slowly coming to light that this was all just a 3 ring circus for hollywood I plan to wait till I hear the pending trial before passing comment on the justification of what took place regards weapons in that house that morning (and who terrorised who).
But I concur 100% re crown law, the deceitful Finlayson and the costs to the NZ taxpayer so far.
I hope it doesnt get to trial. Yeah Chris needs to apologise profusely, it seems hes appealing though,
Itl be really funny if he loses that one big too as his ego wont like that for sure,it must be in massive denial mode now too.
Yeah its costing us a fortune, seems we need to keep financing Chris's egos second attempt
They don't get paid that much in court as their fess are set by statue, but yes they seem to defend lost causes to create extra fees for themselves as opposed to being the "gate keepers" Brent Stanaway in Christchurch is the worst one of them all as was seen int he Gwaze case when he said evidence did not exist.
With all those armed weapons in a bunch of excitable over-hyped muppets, be very glad no one was shot.
yeah lucky, i suppose they have safetys on
Kim Dotcom’s defence lawyer has labelled the police raid on the internet millionaire’s mansion in January “woefully incompetent.”
You'd have to agree. And PD knocks up a pretty gopd beer crate, too.
Why do you agree, what was woefully incompetent?
Given, that It took a while to find the safe room but thats about it,so why woefully?
Are there any...are there any...Police here?*
With a apologies to Python.
Corruption.... Burgess's head should roll
Basic principals of NZ law is what is at stake here. Nothing to do with what a charlatan Dotcom may or, may not be but, did the police act lawfully? With all the NZ and USA political pressure upon her, this is a big call to put on the shoulders of one lady. I hope she has done her homework. To date, she has done splendidly well
Paul - once again you are getting right to the nub of the issue. Seems that so many are commenting on the rumour, spin & bias which as I recall was started by the initial police media briefing that was more salacious than I expected. It was sure written to tickle the tabloids. The gun issue has got curious because reading back on the comments it seems many would and are demanding that armed specialist police must as of course in this fair land carry out any raid where a weapon is known to exist. I cant help thinking that little Johnny is accused of cribbing a game or music off the interweb and because his dad is a duck shooter we can expect a full door kicking gun toting hard at it dawn raid of their humble abode and lets not forget granny in the adjoining flat must be neutralised also. Yup no half measures, full risk assessment and only the best surveillance for a matter so risky as copyright.
You guys have lost the plot and have succumbed to the wiles of a good trial lawyer and spin doctoring.
Have you forgotten already the police officers who have gotten killed on routine warrant matters?
At the end of the day he is a thief and a villain.
Of course his lawyer has labelled the Police incompetent because it is his job to defend his client by claiming anything he wishes - that is his job. Nobody cares what his lying lawyer has to say - he is no better than his crooked client.
His client, so-called "Dotcom", is a convicted career criminal who needs removing from this country immediately. We don't mind where he goes, or how he goes, so long as it is away from NZ and he is welcome to take all his crooked mates and his lawyer with him.
Go the NZ Police - you have the total support of most of the decent citizens in this country - and who really cares about the few that disagree - they can all go with Dotcom to the back-blocks of Nigeria. It sounds like there's a few of his pitiful supporters on here - probably his fellow criminals.
Its past your bedtime, you really havn't understood the issue here. The decent citizens are appalled by whats taking place and question at whose behest. I suggest "crusher' Collins would be best advised to take her colleague Finlayson around the back and give him a good old fashioned police style talking to for the fine mess he has created on so many fronts. I'll be happy to donate the telephone book.
Yes I do understand the subject, despite your worthless opinion.
It is excellent that the Police are dealing with the criminals in our society and protecting the interests of the bulk of the citizens in this country. Yes there are times when the Police make mistakes - so what - they are human as well. Their job is to catch criminals and that is exactly what they are doing with Dotcom - great !
It is absolutely fantastic that they are dealing with this convicted criminal in the manner that they are and they are not remotely blinded by his supposed wealth. All are equal in the eyes of the law in this country and Dotcom is finding out the hard way that the law and those who enforce it cannot be bought with his illegally gotten gains.
That obviously does not apply to lawyers and and some politicians. It seems there are plenty of them willing to get onto Dotcoms payroll and lie to the Courts to make out that their client is squeeky clean - well he isn't and he never has been. He is a convicted criminal in two other countries and we don't need him or his associates here in NZ.
Good on the Police and all the other decent citizens who are trying to get rid of him. NZ will be a much better place when he is gone.
Go man!! you are right, but aren't you a little saddened at how many posters here do not seem to know right from wrong or good from bad?
And some will undoubtedly be raising children!! That thought is frightening?
Totally agree with you John - sure is sad so let's hope they all wake up?
Dotcom is a convicted global criminal who appears to be using NZ as a safe haven for his enterprise. He is obviously intelligent and an excellent talker - all the traits of a skilled conman. We can all see that it works well for him by the majority of "pro-criminal" comments on this site, including the naiive authorities that allowed him entry because he was supposedly rich. It's obvious where his cash has come from!
Everyone needs to wake up and support the authorities who are looking after the interests of the majority of decent citizens. We, the majority, totally support the NZ Police, the FBI, the CIA and and all other authorities who are doing their best to nails this criminals activities.
His overpaid lawyers are the only people who believe Dotcom is a good decent innocent person. What a joke!!
The wealth envy slur ... keep trying.
None of it nullifies the fact this was a POLITICALLY MOTIVATED police action, beginning with Hollywood political donors pressure on the White House who spoke with Simon Power, John Key (maybe others) and now Chris Findlayson seems to want to carry their dirty water all the way up this particular Everest of stupidity and corruption.
Get real ! No decent person envies criminals or the wealth they have obtained from their crimes. NZ is one of the least corrupt countries in the world and to claim this action against Dotcom as "politically motivated" is naiive in the extreme. It is the Police and other authorities dealing to the criminals on our behalf - great !!
Just look at the facts and take a peek behind the scenes at how this criminal operates - by taking advantage of the gullible people in good decent countries like NZ. It sure is working well for him but let's all hope the judicial system wakes up and sends him and his associates back to where they come from.
In reality, if he Dotcom was a murderer, rapist, or stock-standard criminal with no cash to spend he would not have made it past the border.
Despite some of the comments on this subject we are not all suckers here in NZ and the sooner he faces some real justice the better.
Since you believe that Dotcom is a 'criminal' and if he is exradited to the USA, what in your view, should happen to the money he donated to the Christchurch earthquake appeal?
It is not a "belief" that Dotcom is a criminal - it is a verifiable fact that he is a convicted criminal which is no doubt why these comments have not been deleted.
Good on the victims in Christchurch for receiving some of his ill-gotten gains. The fact he has made that type of donation is nothing but a publicity stunt on his part and designed to make him look good.
If you take your view to its natural conclusion, those ill-gotten gains belong to Hollywood and that the CHCH E/Appeal are in receipt of stolen monies. You seem to want a bob each way. (pun not intended)
"NZ is one of the least corrupt countries in the world "
Another kiwi myth & legend
I can promise you NZ is littered with the very worse kind of corruption and in its mildest form corrupt by neglect also. Anyone who has dealt with the bureaucracy central or local government, finance, insurance scams, deceit & fraud abounds. Try tendering for supply with competitor products against the likes of CHH or Fletchers.
At least in pther countries I have lived and traded in the graft is up front.
Those attempting to turn this dotcom farce into a footy game of which side do you back ignoring the rule of law (and no privy council anymore) just shows how shallow the country has become. And dont forget Findlayson and his devious doings with the Maori !
Absolutely. I have done business in several countries around the world including several years in China. In my view, NZ has more grafters and shysters amidst its ranks, than any other country per head of capita.
How dare you presume you speak for decent citizens. Most decent citizens I know believe in a justice system where you are innocent until proven guilty. Dotcom has been given residence in NZ. If you disagree with that lobby your MP. Clearly the massive economic benefit he has brought to NZ has outweighted his history of minor white collar crime.
Grow up or at least shut up!
You are obviously one of his lawyers and on that basis you are certainly not in a position to be judging the rest of the decent citizens in our society - which are the majority and we are totally fed-up with criminals like Dotcom. All power to the authorities and the sooner he is gone the better off our society will be - and the tin-pot lawyers are welcome to join him.
Of course, the same scenario applies to taxes paid to the NZ Govt by Dotcom, who have arguably benefited from his 'criminal' activity.
Which brings us around to a subject that we all should be concerned about. That is how come some people (convicted crims amongst them) can buy their way into NZ and yet when a hard working family in Bali want to come they either sail and drown or get quarantined and then sent home?
It's funny how laws benefit the rich isn't it John. Blame to politicians. NZ immigration approved Dotcom's residency on the basis that the economic benefit to NZ was huge in comparison to his minor criminal history. Megaupload is a widely used file transfer system that is ligitimate. Dotcom can not be held responsible if some of his clients have infringed copyright. If an Avis hire car was used as a getaway car for a robbery, you wouldn't hold Avis responsible, would you???
Nun liebe kinder gebt fein acht....
Mit diesem bargeld hab ich die macht die augenlider zu erpressen!
Not my eyelids!
Only to the eyebrows??
Und jetzt verpiss Dich Kraut
John, so now we see you for what you are... a racist f$#@wit!
racist!!
You twit, can't you understand basic German??
John, you don't think that police were way over the top?
I do not know the information the police acted on. I trust that the information they went forward on warranted the way they did it. If that info. was wrong then someone please tell me what was it, and where was it wrong?.
I do know that the STG do not move unless they are ordered to do so.
I believe they did well; job done and no lives lost. I applaud them.
Why are people dumping on these officers for doing what they were ordered to do, and doing it well?
John, there's a car parked in 34 Federal Street, with an expired WOF. You might want to advise the traffic warden to issue an infringement notice.
NAH I'll leave that to the likes of you who believes you have a right to the free use of other peoples property and embezzlement and insider trading is done by people of good character.
Waxsey what if that cars handbrakes fail and it runs over people down the street the next day as the owner thought they could keep getting away with it. How does giving those pricks at the council the chance of a $200 ticket now then compare to the people being maimed because you didnt get it enforced?
Pirating affects a lot of people down the track, but if dotcom did give them the ability to remove copyright stuff then i dont think your wof was a good analogy at all
Translation:
Well sweet children pay attention closely....
With this cash I've got the power to extort the eyelids!
(~.~)' Versteht ihr mich?
A bit too subtle for most I guess, but the irony is that all the cash is now with the authorities. Dotcom having without conviction been near utterly impoverished.
Nice twist to consider that it is Crown Law with the unlimited funds of the taxpayer now with the power to extort the eyelids.
The NZ Whaleoil blog site has just posted a fascinating Vimeo video (referenced to Boing Boing) that has implications re dotcom
http://www.whaleoil.co.nz/2012/08/buying-protection/
Yes, please keep buying those DVDs so that Hollywood can keep buying US politicians.
the NZ Declared war upon there own people years ago....i dont understand why they havent been rounded up, tried and hanged from rusty meathooks with piano wire used as rope for prosecuting people who defend themselves from criminal activity - robbing ones right to self defence is HIGH TREASON. and thats what the NZ govt are getting away with.