Police knew Dotcom raid would be seen as 'overzealous' – top cop
"This Hollywood inspired theatre of a raid on Dotcom was not their finest hour."
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The police officer in charge of the raid on Kim Dotcom’s mansion is defending the use of helicopters and armed officers, despite concerns it would be seen as “overzealous”.
Mr Dotcom’s lawyer Paul Davison, QC, is questioning Detective Inspector Grant Wormald as part of a hearing at the Auckland High Court into the reasonableness of the police raid in January.
Mr Wormald has read his original affidavit to the court, in which he says one of the “biggest concerns was there would be criticism that we were taking an overzealous approach".
“Dealing with bad PR, however, cannot be seen as a reason not to conduct an operation safely.”
Mr Wormald justified the use of helicopters, saying Mr Dotcom was seen as a flight risk.
Police were concerned Mr Dotcom could get access to one of his “powerful” vehicles and run away if the police weren’t quick, he said.
“In his time in New Zealand, he had been dealt with twice by police for driving with excessive speed.”
Mr Wormald’s affidavit refers to clips which showed Mr Dotcom driving fast and erratically, and ignoring police checkpoints.
He also said there was a concern of guns being at the property, which was based on photographs of Mr Dotcom positioned in front of his vehicles holding guns.
The hearing continues.
4pm yesterday:
Chief High Court judge Helen Winkelmann has permanently ordered the media not to publish any codes or call signs used during the January raid on Kim Dotcom’s mansion.
The Crown wants them to remain a secret because they could hamper future police investigations.
The raid is the subject of a three-day hearing at the Auckland High Court which is due to conclude today.
The court has heard from a senior police officer involved with the special tactics group during the raid.
A video of police helicopter footage of the raid has also been shown, with audio of the police radio during the event.
The Crown wanted details of the police codes, call signs and names revealed in the video and associated documents to remain secret.
However, despite pleas from the media for those to be made public, Justice Winkelmann has ruled they should stay secret, except for one code which is already in the public domain, Zero Alpha.
Mr Dotcom’s lawyer Willie Akel argued there is nothing to be gained by keeping them a secret, and the issue needs a “reality check”.
Justice Winkelmann also granted media access to certain police documents relating to the raid, but the Crown has appealed this so they will remain suppressed until at least later today.
Mr Dotcom's lawyers are arguing police were over the top in the way they undertook the raid.
A senior police officer involved in leading the raid has been giving evidence.
Mr Dotcom earlier claimed he was roughly handled by police when they found him and was punched in the head.
However, the officer says he didn’t see any punching or kicking.
“When he was pulled down onto the floor, the standard procedure is to get people spread eagle.
“What did happen was one of those officers stood on [Kim Dotcom’s] hand.”
Mr Dotcom's QC Paul Davison suggested the officer stood on Mr Dotcom’s hand until it was bleeding; far longer than the foot needed to be there.
The officer denied this, but said a “deliberate” amount of force was used.
Mr Davison also referred to evidence by Mr Dotcom’s bodyguard Wayne Tempero, in which he describes the officer as “yelling and shouting at us from close range when it was not necessary to do so”.
“You appeared to be over-excited and hyped up,” Mr Davison said to the officer.
The policeman replied: “No, it was a more conversational tone.
“This operation was not what we’d call ‘high end’, and there was no shouting required.”
The hearing continues.
10am yesterday:
The Crown is still determined to keep documents and strategy relating to the police raid on Kim Dotcom’s Coatesville mansion a secret.
A three-day hearing is continuing at the Auckland High Court, where Mr Dotcom’s lawyers are arguing the January raid on his house was unreasonable.
Witnesses include Mr Dotcom himself, who yesterday described the events of the day, and senior police officers – unable to be identified because of suppression orders – who were involved in the planning and execution of the raid.
The court is also being shown police helicopter footage of the raid, which includes police radio communication.
The Crown doesn’t want the public to know details about the strategy used by the special tactics group.
It has asked Chief High Court Judge Helen Winkelmann to suppress documents which refer to the tactics used by police, including call signs and codes.
Crown lawyer Fergus Sinclair argued: “There can be no substantial public interest in a technical detail like that.”
He says the police are concerned future police operations could be hampered if details of the strategy they use are out in the public arena.
The Crown has agreed to release a transcript of the police audio from the raid, but on the condition names, codes and call signs are blanked out.
However, some members of the media objected to the suppression, telling the court those codes are already publicly available on the internet.
Justice Winkelmann has ordered those details to remain secret for now, plus selected pages of secretive “blue book”, which contains police documents relating to the raid.
A senior police officer involved in the raid is continuing to give evidence today.
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Comments and questions52
Will heads roll in the Police over this fiasco? I bet they wouldn't have been so gung-ho if there was a chance they had to pay for this mess out of their own pockets, instead of the poor tax payer.
Nah. They always get away with it.
Go NZ police, I am proud of you. Please take care and always remember your safety is paramount.
" Principle 2 - The ability of the police to perform their duties is dependent upon the public approval of police actions."
Sir Robert Peel
I suggest you read all his principles also. This Hollywood inspired theatre of a raid on Dotcom was not their finest hour.
Oh, so you are the measurer of public opinion?
Better than you I suggest.
Unlike you, I do not and never have, purported to be a measurer of public opinion.
But I must profess the number of wasters (geeks) who seem to be anti-police and pro making a living off other peoples property is rather alarming.
NZ would be the clear winner if you and your nefarious parasites would accompany the kraut to the USA. But, alas I do not think Uncle Sam would have you.
I would like to water board you but alas it is not torture anymore....
John, you are funny.
w*nker
No, John. What is paramount is the safety of citizens. The Police are a gang. They lost their moral authority a long time ago. As a society we need to get that it will just keep getting worse. The safety of our citizens, including the safety of our property, privacy etc is a long forgotten purpose of the Police.
Advice to Mr Plod.
Before you play dress-up and launch lightning raids by the STG over commercial disputes, learn to pop the boot of a car.
They were just star-struck by the chance to play cops and robbers with the G-Men.
Marvin's right. G-Men mania. These Armed Offeder Squad [AOS] gung hos have no insignia or visible ID so violence is the norn. Worse than nazi ss. AOS is evil and has many young dumb cops who joined to enjoy extreme violence without any accountability. Dotcom told the truth re his violent unprovoked beating. And now the Crown want to conceal it from right thinking citizens meaning the Crown are no better than the AOS.
Are you for real? I personsally kinow a member of the AOS, and your sweeping summation of members of this organisation shows your ignorance of the training and the type of police who are members of this squad. L8ike army personal what keep them alive is their ability to follow orders and do the necessary to keep us all safe. You are a the worry to NZ society not AOS members
You go and ask your mate what he thinks about his hierarchy and their politically appointed masters. You aren't the only one who has friends as members, I've even got family and I can promise you that following orders from pc incompetents or patently inexperienced can be galling. "Follow orders" history has a lot to say about that philosophy. This Dotcom fiasco isn't a poll on who supports what team, but is another wake up call to Wellington that the public want some good old fashioned competence, ethics, honour and hard when genuinely necessary with less boofhead showpony shennanigans.
Funny how copyright law can bring out strange and stupid behaviour by the police. I was once involved in a bizarre copyright matter that lingered before the NZ courts for many years and cost the country $millions in lost trade. On one occasion during the proceedings, the police attempted to intimidate the defendant into signing a 'pre-prepared' confession. When it comes to using the Courts and/or involving the police as a mechanism by which to prevent legitimate market competition, nothing surprises me. In such instances, the only winners are lawyers and the country, the biggest loser.
You have alluded to this matter I recall before... Would be fascinated to hear about it in more detail, is it on a blog or anywhere? The grey area between criminal and civil and the usual political interference they all deny, as you rightly say the lawyers are always the winners. Hence why the chattering class are finding dotcom so interesting and the Campbell live interview a bit of good tv for a change. The big guy is now a folk hero love him or hate him.
Correct, I have alluded to it before. No, there is nothing about it on the internet. The case never went to trial despite numerous trial dates set down over a period of about 10 years. These were continuously delayed by the plaintiff until the Court finally saw the light of day and ordered it to trial or, for the plaintiff to drop the case. By that time, all the damage that could have been done, had been done. The entire matter had been a fabrication, and the Court completely out of its depth.
I want to see the cops punching and kicking this dangerous copyright gangsta thug on television ... it will be epic.
w*nker
Why bother to deliver a court summons by courier when you can conduct an armed assault to get exactly the same result of getting your quarry before the judge? A whole lot more fun along with the adrenalin rush when you opt for the latter.
Some of the details from the blue book have already leaked onto the Internet:
"Procedures
....
6a If the suspect is apprehended in the kitchen area, thorough precautions must be taken. Always blow on the pie.
"
The sooner this obese convicted criminal is gone from this country the better off we will all be. There is enough crooked professionals here as it is and we don't need him or his big-noting mates making the place worse.
The down side is the local KFC and MacDonalds will probably go out of business without his patronage. Oh well, never mind - that's the price they will have to pay in order for us to be rid of this parasitic criminal.
I must profess the number of wasters (geeks) who seem to be anti-police and pro-making a living off other peoples property, is rather alarming.
NZ would be the clear winner if these nefarious parasites would accompany the kraut to the USA. But, alas I do not think Uncle Sam would have them.
Hi John
Ever use a photocopier to copy anything, that you weren't the author of?
Cheers
Paul
Hi Paul,
Pushing it uphill a bit here, aren't I :)
The answer to your question is; "I dunno, but prob'ly have"
Now you help me here, I have a real problem with posters here that quite rightly dump on merchant bank directors misusing and losing other peeps money, (property) but when it comes to the internet they support a company who facilitates access to other peoples property for less than they would have to pay if they asked the owner.?
I also have a problem with this "person" who quite clearly bribed his way into NZ, "Employed" politicians and police, ex and current, and when he thought he was being attacked says he "didn't know it was the police" Okay fair enough he may not have known it was the cops, so, why didn't he or one of his staff dial 111? And please do not tell me he didn't have a cell.
Cheers
PS You have a nice day, sun streaming in the window here
Hi John
I'd hate to be the driver of the car right behind you at a traffic light, stuck on red, at a deserted intersection @ 3AM. I'd go bonkers.
John, I'd just hate to be you. It must suck.
you have you head firmly place up your own behind dont you
I'm not a geek, nor do I hate the police. I do believe the NZ police have been used by Uncle Sam to conduct a raid that is more a kin to one on known terrorists or drug dealers. The allegations against Dotcom are yet to be proved and in my opinion are extremely tenuous. The raid was massively over the top and as a tax payer that concerns me. What concerns me more is that NZ appears to be a puppet for the USA and our legal system is being abused by the FBI – no doubt at the expense of the NZ taxpayer.
Hi, you blame the USA!! No NZ police did not have to do anything they did not believe was warranted. They NZ police MUST take full responsibility for THEIR actions,
Whether the raid was OTT I do not know, maybe it was, but given this persons history, I do not think, "knocking on the door and asking politely for a look round" was an option either.
The NZ police responded to requests from the FBI. To suggest that the NZ police would refuse to act on their flimsy allegations is naïve. The crown prosecutors are now doing what the FBI instruct, appealing ever decision goes against them and delaying the extradition hearing. In the meantime, Dotcoms business, his property and his life are destroyed; in effect, guilty until proven innocent. That’s not justice in my book and pointing to his background of minor white collar crimes and the flaws in the immigration/political process is no defence to this shoddy treatment.
John - strewth you are worse than a dog with a bone.
Dont you recall that only a day or so earlier plod did get invited in for a look around and had a pen camera filming it !
You consistently fail to appreciate that this fiasco of a raid was what I would expect for armed terrorists, kiddy fiddlers, kidnappers, murderers, gangland cartels etc. Kiwis want to and do support our force but we expect a far higher standard of competency than evidenced by this case.
Well done. couldn't agree more. NZ police behaving as the puppets of the FBI who are the puppets of the big Hollywood studios that can't adapt to 21st Century reality of the internet.
We, NZ taxpayer are indirectly subsidizing these studiios through our puppets NZ Police.
What a wast of money and resources.
3 News 6pm. FBI @ coatesville. Didn't realise we had become a state of USA!
It seems that John Morrison has found the login for the computer at the facility he's in.
When John Morrison is not on the computer at the Auckland Library, he's scouring the city streets, alerting the parking warderns to those cars whose parking receipts have expired.
Oh WOW, this debate is getting so frighteningly intellectual, I'm surprised that the staff @ NBR can keep up!!
Looks like another Police stuff up , they are getting really good at this , Lets just call it a Mega Stuff Up !
maybe someone will come out with a new Burger with the name MEGA UPLOAD ! yea
Let's all be grateful that in our incestuous court system there is a Justice Helen Winkelmann, with some big balls, when it comes to kicking our sleazy cops in theirs. Most of the other wimpos would have gone to their default settings and backed the Keystoners.
Yes, she has done well thus far and one of the better performances I've seen in a long time from a High Court Judge. She will be under considerable political pressure (through the various channels) to find in favour of crown law/ the police.
A Personal Plea to our Police.
Next time, a storeowner is shot and his life is slipping away, can you and the medics attend to him before rigor mortis sets in?
Oh NBR commenters, I love you so.
What a huge waste of our money.in times of being frugal and whatever police minister has to say in this matter.
One has to wonder if the police really believe what they are saying. Had to use helicopters because he is a flight risk. May get into one of his high powered cars and escaped? There is only 2 driveways into the place isn't there?
He's had two speeding tickets. Call out the STG!!!
The police are not only insulting the intelligence of the court with claims like this, they're insulting all of the people in NZ, to whom they serve.
No - they are certainly not insulting the intelligence of anyone. The Police are doing their job and looking after the rest of us law abiding decent citizens.
This overweight slob who now calls himself "Dotcom" is a convicted fraudster - a career criminal who now resides in this country because he bought his way in by crawling to the beauracrats, and they all fell for it including that idiot called Banks.
I support the Police 100% for what they are doing and the sooner this crook is gone the better off we will all be. Go the cops!!
Wow!! and here I was thinking I was on "my pat malone" supporting the police.
Also I think at "days end" you'll find that the NZ Police have been standing between the kraut and the FBI, KGB and the Mossad.
i am not qualified to advise the NZ Police but it would please me if they simply stepped aside and let the world rottweillers have him.
A lot of misplaced comments here!
Our police/politicians cannot avoid looking stupid in this matter.
All we can hope for is better performance by both parties in future.
liberte
Along with the USA War on terror which drove the raids on Ruatoki ,our cops are getting as reputation for being anal retentive to the ugly, thuggish cowboy streak in macho male American society. One that is held in global contempt.
What happened to the independent and objective professionalism of our police force. Is it now obsequiously subservient to FBI and CIA thugs with guns?
If so look to more of this boganish behaviour, but with a but dangerously myopic stance. The comments of the officer in charge to questioning in the high court, only confirm this unwelcome and ugly manisfestation. Appalling!