Employers take hit over sackings
The Employment Relations Authority has come down hard on bosses in three cases where, it would seem, they were perfectly justified in sacking their employees.
They include:
- A manager who got very drunk and misbehaved at a client function, attracting a complaint of sexual harrassment.
- A nanny who drove too fast and swore at the children.
- Atechnician who faked his CV and nearly electrocuted an apprentice.
These are all scenarios where employers could well think they were justified dismissing an employee.
But when each of these scenarios played out in Kiwi workplaces recently, the employer’s decision to dismiss was found by the ERA to be unjustified, resulting in a substantial damages payments to the sacked employees of $62,000, $6000 and $10,000, respectively.
Where did the employer go wrong?
In each of these cases, the employer made mistakes when it came to following the required procedural steps in addressing allegations of serious misconduct.
The cases serve as a firm reminder to employers that no matter how badly an employee behaves, minimum fair process for dismissal must still be followed.
Employment lawyers Jennifer Mills and Christie Hall from Minter Ellison Rudd Watts explain where the employer tripped up in each of these recent cases.
Nanny who drives too fast and swears at children gets $6000
The nanny was dismissed after a night where both of the children in her care had telephoned their mother to express discontent.
The mother had previously talked to the nanny about complaints from the children that she swore and drove too fast, but not in a formal disciplinary context.
After the final complaint from her child, the mother concluded that the situation was not working out and sent the nanny a text message to let her know. The ERA considered the employer’s failure to comply with the principles of natural justice rendered the dismissal unjustified.
In particular, there had been no raising of concerns, no discussion and no attempt to ascertain what had happened, or why, when the decision to dismiss was made.
Refrigeration technician who lies about experience gets $10,000
When it came to refrigeration technician Friedriech Gostmann his employer, Independent Refrigeration and Electrical, was criticised for not taking steps to improve the technician’s skills through a performance management or monitoring process.
The employer was also criticised for not conducting more thorough reference checks, although the ERA also accepted that the employee was to blame for the inaccuracy of the references.
Manager drunk and inappropriate at a client function gets $62,000
The most troubling precedent for employers is the case of the manager whose employer dismissed him after allegations of drunken misbehaviour at a charity event sponsored by the employer.
The allegations included gross intoxication, verbal abuse of Indian customers, verbal abuse towards a colleague and sexual harassment.
Despite these numerous allegations, the dismissal was found to have been unjustified and the employee was awarded more than $62,000 in lost income and compensation.
The theme of the determination was in line with those above – the employer had not sufficiently investigated the allegations, had not given the employee an adequate opportunity to respond to the allegations and had not genuinely considered the employee’s explanation before making the decision to dismiss.
Employers cannot afford to skimp on process.
Don't skimp on process when dismissing an employee
Since 2011, the Employment Relations Act has codified the minimum requirements for a fair disciplinary process. In assessing whether dismissal is an action that a fair and reasonable employer could take in all the circumstances, the ERA must consider a number of factors, Ms Mills and Hall say.
The first consideration is whether, having regard to the employer’s resources, sufficient investigation has been undertaken. The better the resources of the employee, the more stringent the application of this section will be. Essentially, large employers have no excuse for not investigating allegations, as they have the resources to competently do so.
However, this does not mean that small employers are excused from the application of this test, the lawyers say.
For example, in the case of the nanny, the ERA noted that the employer was an individual with no knowledge of employment law. Yet this did not “excuse significant deficiencies”, especially as she was “of means and could have obtained professional assistance”.
The ERA must also consider whether the employer raised its concerns with the employee and whether the employee was given a reasonable opportunity to respond.
These two steps cannot be done at once.
- The employer must first raise its concerns with the employee and inform the employee in clear terms that dismissal is a possibility.
- The employee must also be provided with all relevant information regarding the allegations (including the identity of any complainant).
- he employer must then allow the employee time to consider the concerns, formulate a response and obtain legal advice if needed. It is also important that the employee’s explanation for any alleged misconduct is heard by the person who is making the decision as to whether or not to dismiss.
- Finally, the employer must genuinely consider the employee’s explanations.
- The employer’s decision must not be predetermined and it must be reached without bias.
In the case of the intoxicated manager, there were three decision makers and only one of those three heard directly from the employee. The decision maker did not take any notes during the meeting. In light of that information, the ERA held that the other two decision makers could not have genuinely considered the employee’s explanations.
In addition to the factors above, the ERA can also consider any other factors it thinks appropriate. Such factors could include the employer’s policies, the contents of the employee’s employment agreement and whether there had been any previous incidents that had been treated differently.
It is therefore important that employers comply with their own policies and agreements and are able to justify any differences in treatment between employees, Ms Mills and Hall say.
These recent cases provide a firm warning as to the dangers of assuming that some instances of misconduct are so obvious that a full and impartial investigation is not necessary. Having a substantive reason for dismissal is only one part of the equation.
Jennifer Mills is a partner and Christie Hall is a senior associate at Minter Ellison Rudd Watts






















Comments and questions48
The ERA is a serious joke. I would be surprised of anyone who arbitrates in these cases has ever run their own business and tried the balancing act of employing staff. They just would not understand how problematic some employees turn out to be to the detriment of their businesses.It is no woinder this country has no growth nor serious productivity etc. Banana republic
Right on. If they want to tell us how to run our businesses they should assume the risks.
It's simple really - just follow the process. It's an easy process, so don't blame others for your own slackness.
Sure there is a process but it is a flawed process that stifles employment.
Rubbish. It's an extremely simple process, easy to do. Don't pretend that it interferes with employment. You just want to hire and fire at your will.
The recommended process has been around in basic terms for 30 plus years - how long does it take to sink in?
Ouch - our overdraft is backed by our house, we lose the business we lose everything. That gives us the right, nay, moral imperative, to do whatever we see fit (outside of the Crimes Act) to ensure the business survives.
Rubbish again. Because you are in debt, with that guaranteed by your house, does not give you the right to do what you like with your employees, The law is there to protect people from the likes of you. The processes are simpler than you doing your GST - or do you think you have a "right, nay moral imperative" to not do that either?
There are no excuses for not following due process or running roughshod over an individual's rights to a fair hearing. Doing so is just lazy or worse still; a cowboy mentality. This reflects badly on all employers. The fact that the law is applied in an even-handed way in this country is evidence that we are not living in a banana republic.
So, Anonymous, do you believe from what you have read that each of those employees was entitled to compensation and that they should not have been dismissed?
As an employer of just a few I shudder about our plans to increase our business size. This makes one feel nervous. By the way, we are excellent employers - our happy staff will tell you that.
Do you employ people yourself?
Judy - the decisions did not say that they should not have been dismissed, just that the correct simple process wasn't followed in doing so.
I worry about employers' ability to manage their businesses dispassionately when they don't read clear judgements and learn the lessons from them.
I totally agree with the #1 remarks. Our family had two small businesses employing up to 15 local staff but after being dragged through the ERA we decided to sell both and to go back and work in the corporate scene.
Similar to the other employers, we had followed the law by the book, only to lose at ERA. We even employed an employment barrister who told us we were never going to win as the gun is always loaded against the employer.
These and many other cases show just why potential employers shy away and simply contract out needed services to independent operators. Who needs employment headaches when business is too important as a prosperity generator to risk such anti business attitudes. The real question in each of those cases was: should the employee have been dismissed? and then should the lack of due process be allowed to penalise the employer? Two wrongs do not make a right. Or perhaps the government wants these cases to show up the need for reform.
We employers like our staff to be fair and follow processes - why should we think we should be exempt?
You are correct, but we own the company. So we make the calls rightly or wrongly that suit us. We do not lock our staff in to work so why should we be locked into our staff if they do not perform as required.
Due process is the reason why things cost so much in this country, as one mistake does not allow for sacking so you let the damage continue to have ticked all the boxes - someone has to pay.
You are not locked in - you just have to follow a fair and transparent process. Just like you would expect a fair employee of yours to do.
And there are the words that describe it all "...we own the company so we make the calls rightly or wrongly that suit us."
Sorry, but no-one is above the law. Perhaps you may appreciate this better when you become an employee again.
You want to "make the calls rightly or wrongly that suit us" just because you own the company. Sorry, but ownership does not give you that absolute right unless you live in and are supported by a tinpot dictatorship somewhere.
To those who disagree with the owner of a firm having more rights than his employees I would be happy to see how you run your firm of how many staff? We have 25 staff and I can ensure you we do not have many dealings with issues but it does chew up a damn sight more time and resource than it should to remove a problem staff member. I grew watching the old system where you just sack them on the spot. In return, however, this can create loyalty from good staff as they see you deal swiftly with any issues and do not drag the mood of the whole staff down to sort a bad egg. I'd almost put money that most of the negative comments to mine do not work in the private sector as management or firm owners. If you were and your money was on the line then you would not be so hasty to disagree.
Wrong, I'm sorry - I have had staff of 15, up to 40 at times, in my own business. And I know it's not simple. You have to work with your staff to get your best results - that's why they are your best resource.
And don't forget, owners currently have the biggest right of all - 90 days and you can let them go without having to give any reason. Or have you simply made a bad choice of staff, even after seeing them at work for 90 days?
So let's look at the process - 3 steps:
1. Verbal warning, diarised. Ensure you give them a chance to put their point of view and check that additional training isn't needed.
2. Verbal warning, witnessed and diarised. Ensure again you give them a chance to put their point of view and check again if additional training is needed.
3. Written, final warning. Ensure again you give them a chance to put their point of view and check again if additional training is needed.
Lordy be - if only all my tasks as a business owner were so simple!
I am not saying that the 90 days is a bad thing but that is not much use for existing staff. We have a firm large enough to ensure we take on new staff in the correct way not to void the 90-day trial, which can be easily done. SMEs are normally firms with less then 20 people so they don't have the time or people to ensure all things are absolutly correct without wasting good time after bad. Bigger firms have HR departments just to handle all this cr*p. A cost to that will be past on to the consumer of there goods... Bottom line is if you are an unfair employer in a small town you will go out of business - staff don't have to work for bad employers.
One other point. Are you not at all concerned for the rest of your staff or customers during the really fast and easy process you have outlined as so good? No, there will be no issues when you start to formally remove someone - how silly of me.
You have managed to ignore my comment that staff are your best resource and should have your high priority to keep those that are good, manage out those that aren't, and continuously upgrade their skills and productivity.
Re the process, do you have the same attitude to other things like GST and tax returns, or is it just the simple easy process I've outlined that you have a problem with?
Because excessive bureaucracy destroys jobs and prosperity.
Not enough regulatory oversight destroys lives and prosperity.
See Solidarity's informed comment below. We are very far from having a problem with insufficient regulation.
Rubbish Alan. We've just been judged the easiest country in the world to do business and the least regulated. Excessive bureaucracy does undermine jobs and prosperity. But those who think this is excessive are cowboys wanted to simply do whatever they want.
What happens if an employee isn't fair or follows due process? I dont think they pay $60k.
That drunk employee could be the reason for the loss of a $1k or a $100k contract - I don't see them compensating for that loss.
Lose their jobs for good and can also get costs awarded against them if the application was vexatious.
They have had to pay costs awarded against them previously? Otherwise the appropriate action is a civil law suit.
I think that when it comes to imposing fines and penalties on the companies involved the ERA should have to consider whether the employee would have been sacked if the correct process had been followed.
If this is the case the penalty should be greatly reduced.
Firing the nanny by text was stupid, but when someone is caring for your kids you should be able to fire as you please.
Likewise, if the manager of the drunk sexual harasser had evidence from multiple parties (independent, not effected), then they should be able to fire as well.
And the faked CV, do I even need to comment.
Raving lunacy. It is the ERA that should be sacked along with ER legal industry that it has created and is sucking on the teats of all employers.
Basically in order to sack anyone you now have to employ a lawyer. Who will now write articles like this justifying their existence.
Follow the simple process Alan and it need not cost you anything.
There are far harder things in business to deal with than this.
The trouble for employers is “following due process” in a SME context, undertaking investigations between a few workmates creates such ructions within the fabric and culture of your hand-built SME, as to be almost counter-productive to the environment a business owner attempts to create. Major situations such as physical fighting or sexual harassment requires the SME to “legal up” to protect their business and or the victimised staff member … all of which costs, and costs plenty.
Providing an employee with the allegations is fair enough. Giving them “suitable time to access the allegations”, formulate a response and obtain legal advice is also fair enough in theory – in reality, though, it means more disruption and cost for the SME employer (not as much for large corporates, though). And while this is happening, often the SME owner is compelled to either alter rosters / separate feuding staff, or send someone home – on full pay – while “investigations” are completed, all of which detracts from the reason the SME employed the person in the first place.
Often the person sent home is “too traumatised/stressed” for the employer to carry out investigations the next day, so guess who foots the bill for the stressed employee to stay at home for a few more days recovering? And if the employer doesn’t pay then they are not demonstrating “good faith”. Meanwhile, back at work, the SME owner needs to temporarily employ someone else, often at a much higher temp rate, or do it themselves.
So then the SME is forced into either defending itself through the ERA process with all the legal costs and time that involves, or if the SME elects to not participate in the kangaroo court, then the other parties “evidence” is the only thing the ERA can evaluate and only their side of the story is told … and with no contradictory rebuttal, the ERA finds in favour of the person who files a $70 PG complaint who lets their “no win, no fee” ambulance chasing flea lawyer go to any length to stall, stymie, delay and hold up the process as long as possible – because the lawyers also know the ERA often awards for “lost income” and these actions play nicely into that.
So the SME owner either doesn’t partake in the ERA / PG process… and will definitely lose. Or, the SME owner has to seek legal assistance to work through the ERA process… and that can take well over 12 months and often in excess of $20K in legal fees alone. If the SME is found at fault or there is *any* technical deviation from “due process” the ERA call it “procedurally incorrect, leading to unfair dismissal” and the SME owner is slammed by the ERA to the tune of thousands for this. Even when a candidate commits fraud on their CV claiming qualifications and experience they don’t have it’s still 50% the employers fault for not doing robust enough reference checking! What!? The SME owner is a victim of fraud and should have financial recourse for this, not being told they are half at fault for employing a fraudster.
Weighing those costs, stresses, time, effort and draining emotional toll these situations take on a business owner – it’s no small wonder plenty of SME owners have had enough of the risk and hassle and either sell, or replace staff with a contractor working through their own Ltd company and they pay on invoice to eliminate all these risks, costs and hassles.
Absolutely right. Any SME who can contract out versus employing staff is nuts to employ staff.
The ERA has shown a systemic bias against employers and towards employees over a long period of time. It ignores the conduct of the employee in every case and focuses on minute details of process by the employer.
Again rubbish and simply not true. You obviously don't follow all of the decisions.
This is just a load of bull.
Let's see how these ERA morons fare if they were running their own businesses and with the same type of employees.
I found the case of the dismissed electrician the most concerning. Not mentioned here was his lack of knowledge (which he had been assumed to have had from his "CV") and which almost caused the electrocution of a fellow employee. So, should the employer kept him on, and risked the life of someone else, or should he dismiss him, since he wasn't qualified to do the job as he had claimed. What if he had kept him on and someone had died? Who would be in the dock then - it wouldn't be the pen pushers at the ERA that's for sure.
Very disturbing, indeed But in this case, the law states that this employer now has to "manage" this employee's training and upskilling, and give him "reasonable time" to achieve the standard the employer expects... since he is now an employee and has as much rights as someone else who might have been there for 20+ years.
The new employee has more "rights and protection" than the SME owner! How's that for level playing field?
What "reasonable time" actually is, is some nebulous measure of what a fair and reasonable employer would do in the same instance ... and should the employer get it wrong. "Bad faith" is what the ERA calls it.
Is it reasonable for someone with so little ability to be able to reach the required standard in three month's time? No? Well, if not the employer needs to continue training the person for longer then - or they are being unreasonable.... and unreasonable employers are dealt harshly with by the ERA.
What about the employer's responsibility to check the CV, do reference checks, see the electrician's certification and test that he can do jobs that threaten public safety?
You guys want all the freedoms but no responsibility or accountability.
The employer should have sued for fraud and laid a complaint with the police for fraud. The employee would have backed off smartly, knowing he lied to get the job. I once ran a business that relied on employees to handle large amounts of cash. We used CCTV over all our tills and anyone caught stealing was offered the choice - pay it back and resign or we call the police. We never had a PG in these circumstances.
There are 450,000 SMEs in NZ. We as SMEs are the country's major employers. SMEs make business decisions on a continous basis in our work places every day. The govt is happy to take our tax, but have allowed a destructive system of employment and H&S laws to strangle the life out of business.
We have, to my knowledge, never been consulted re any of these laws. It is another industry, perpertrated by who??
My belief is that these laws are designed to destroy SMEs on an incremental basis - 300 pages alone of employment law!!!
Some have said it is easy to follow due process, really, most of the employment issues are solved by paying $5K + by negotiation or more at mediation. This is extortion, but is the cheapest way out, as opposed to the ERA, etc. Some can pay, some will go broke.
We also have a fair number of baby boomers who are employing, no stats, but I can sense some will pull the pin if some common sense doesn't prevail.
The laws we have by and large are faulty and we have progressed from personal responsibilty to a paper war, so to speak.
Employment contracts need to be simple and fai and, mostly they are - it is the 300 pages where the devil is in the detail.
Employers are the enemy, it would appear, read all the judgments on this subject and H&S. Some of this stuff is not believable. We have heard that some judges look to screw employers big time. Hard to prove, but not hard to believe.
Yes we have some bad employers, and have had since employment began.
However, in today's climate SMEs that are as bad as some of the judgments we are reading must be lucky to be in business.
Are we that bad?
We as employers look after our staff, but, as happens, some situations require action.
We make business decisions but have to be PC when we have staff that need to be moved on. The staff can leave, no questions asked. No problem with that, but why not the other way round?
The situation we as employers face is not sustainable. We need guidelines, not governace. We can sort our own issues out without being told what to do and being fined for making a decision that doesn't fit someone's world view.
Wake up, govt, you need to have serious discussions around these issues if you seriously want us to employ.
I am personally passionate about business growth in NZ. It can only be on a team basis, a common-sense basis, and not about some dictatorial extornionist process.
My phone is 0274 507553.
If you have 300 page employment contracts, you are being taken to the cleaners. There are plenty of examples available of what the simple things are that are required in an employment contract. With a job description attached, the basic contract need not be more than two pages.
I appreciate that owning and managing an SME can be hard at times. It sounds as if you are a bit bogged down with things at the moment and I would strongly recommend getting the help of a mentor. Business Mentors New Zealand have people throughout the country and cost only $100 for two years mentoring and you can chop and change your mentors for different specialist needs or where there isn't a fit.
Well said, Ross Windust. Employment lawyers will fight tooth and nail to defend the ERA and keep the status quo with the current law, as it's providing them with a nice little earner. Some of them could find it difficult to earn a crust otherwise. In many cases business owners can't be bothered expending time, energy and money on the clap-trap that is involved dealing with the ERA.
Like it or lump it, the process is the process, and it is not hard to follow. I have terminated five people in the last 12 months (have hired 33). No actual PGs filed, one threat of PG which went nowhere.
For good employers following this process is worthwhile - also, by getting rid of the last of the bad apples, I have eradicated the last union member,and the remaining staff have said "no" to allowing union members on site - great result!
BTW, am hiring three new people this week. All staff are permananet and earning well above the union mist of living wage. Our summer students are paid $20 per hour as well.
Always remember that staff can sack the boss for no reason and no notice. A little perspective is required in employment matters.