EPMU calls stopwork meetings over Telecom/Visionstream contracts
The Engineering, Manufacturing and Printing Union says it is also considering legal action under the Fair Trading Act, claiming it is a “fantasy” to represent new owner/operator contracts, being offered to 900 staff, as a genuine business opportunity. PLUS: the battlefront broadens to Wellington, and Downer EDI.
Around 900 technical staff in Auckland were cast adrift when Telecom’s Chorus division recently signed a trio of 10-year servicing contracts, worth a cumulative $3 billion, with incumbent contractors Downer EDI and Transfield and newcomer to New Zealand Visionstream. All three are Australian companies. As part of the new arrangement, Visionstream got allocated all of Chorus’ contract work in Auckland and Northland. Downer EDI and Transfield staff who formerly worked the region have been offered owner/operator contracts. The first six employees signed yesterday.
EPMU national secretary Andrew Little was dismissive of the signings this morning.
NBR asked Mr Little if he was worried about that his union's position would be gradually chipped away as Visionstream stages more such mini-meetings, putting its offer to small groups of staff at a time, Mr Little said no. The union boss claims most of the Visionstream meetings have been boycotted so far.
Proxy power
Futher, he claims that the EPMU is actually strengthening its position.
Although, only about a third of the 900 staff are unionised, Mr Little says more and more of the rest are signing documents that give the EPMU authority to represent them in the owner/operator talks. The union now represents upward of 500 of the affected staff.
Stopwork meetings from August 3
The EPMU will hold a meeting with Visionstream tomorrow. Failing a breakthough, Mr Little’s next step will be to hold a series of stopwork meetings with members from August 3 to talk through the Visionstream contract.
Meetings will be held in Northland, Auckland and also Wellington where Mr Little says Telecom has instructed Downer EDI (which replaced Transfield in the capital under the recent recast) to also offer owner/operator contracts. Around 180 staff are affected in Wellington.
These stopwork meetings “may cause some disruption ... Telecom should talk to us and the sooner the better if it wants stability on its network for the next three months,” said Mr Little.
Business “fantasy”
For now, Mr Little is only talking stop-work, and not emphasising strike action being talked up by the Electrical Union (which he notes only represents workers in Hamilton, who don’t come under Visionstream).
However, the union has other weapons in its armoury.
Mr Little says the EPMU has a commercial barrister reviewing the Visionstream contract, with a view to a possible action under the Fair Trading Act.
The owner/operator contract, which includes a $3000 cash grant, a 36-month interest free loan for buying a van and tools, and training and software for running your own company, is billed by Visionstream as a chance for people to found their own business.
NBR put it to Mr Little that he would always oppose the owner/operator contract, whatever the terms, simply because it took signees out of his union’s orbit.
Mr Little said that argument was irrelevant, because Telecom would never offer a genuine business opportunity.
“Telecom will never offer an arrangement that allows technicians to develop a genuine business opportunity. This is about control. Telecom runs the billing process and decides what [Visionstream] owner/operators can charge. They’re not able to create goodwill or build up a business that can be sold on or sold back”.
Taking action against Visionstream and Telecom under the Fair Trading Act would emphasise that the two companies are “offering is a fantasy, not a genuine sales opportunity,” said Mr Little.
Broadband threat
Mr Little also questions whether such as highly skilled workforce would receive sufficient training under an owner/operator model.
“There will be no investment in training of the long-term sustainability of their network; certainly no basis for a quality roll-out of broadband - and that’s the real issue for every household and every business.”
Visionstream’s New Zealand manager Andrew Stevens says it is in his company’s self-interest to maintain a skilled, quality staff.
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Comments and questions32
We have a copy of the contract & code pricing and have run enough various senarios and basically your hourly rate would range from $0 - $11.50 per hour on a good day. Doing cable faults in the rural areas of Northland would bust you phyiscially, mentally & finacially not to mention the risk to your family. I think 'happy' should wakeup & smell the roses and seek proffessional advice before committing themself to slavery.
UNITED WE STAND
I havent signed the contract yet, I am in the process of signing it, I have looked over the contract carefully and have seen the loop holes that pass all the risks and cost to us technicians. I am still negotiating with vision stream to amend a few things in the contract and to put it into writing. The people at vision stream seem to be a decent bunch, you don't have to sign the generic contract, you still have some negotiating power mate.
People need an open mind, what's currently happening is that everyone hears this and that, rumors fly around and they boycott any meetings with vision stream, its better to get the answers from the horses mouth and request it in writing as an attachment to your contract.
Having said that, if the amendments im requesting cannot be made, i will not sign, I'll probably try to start a cabling business or move to the electrical industry.
In either case i support all major network techs i.e. cable, fiber and build, doing that type of work on a sub-standard network is suicide, I think its a dumb move from chorus to allow such integral parts of the network be handled on an owner operator model.
For the comment above, You have no foresight, first it is as bad as it seems that is why Visionstream are pushing for owner/ operator as this maxs their profit margins, that is why they will not give us the option of wages, second, during these economic times New Zealand will not stand for 300-500 foreign workers replacing current NZ’ers jobs Imagine what the media would do? And last If visionstream get their way with no alterations to the contract you yourself will have no right to complain about Visionstream when things turn bad, you obviously have not heard of the saying
UNITED WE STAND, DIVIDED WE FALL
The only thing I will agree with is Visionstream will meet their contract obligations but at what cost? and if I end up still working in this industry under Visionstream I can still hold my head up high and say I gave it my best shot. You see mate if we were all like you the Nazis would of ruled the world.
Howdy guys, I'm in the process of signing the contract, have got my buisness name organized etc.
I think you guys are looking too much at the negatives and missing any positives, you need to realize that a big company like vision stream isn't going to run. If need be, they will find people from somewhere, either it be overseas or national, you guys need to wake up and smell the dust.
Dont do what mickey mouse did.
Would like to see proof of that, having read the contract personally no one in their right brain would sign it without seeking legal advice.
these six as rumour says its not regular staff,but subbies to downer and transfield that were looked after ,as all the complex,difficalt time bearing jobs were given to staff,so cut the crap VISIONSTREAM and be honest,THIS IS NEW ZEALAND not AUSTRALIA,WE are still honest foke here.
Seems strange for the union to require Telecom to 'offer the business opportunity' or provide 'training and development' when it is Visionstream that technicians will interact with, as either contractors or employees. The firm that I am a contractor to gets all of its work from the government, but it is the firm, and not the government, that is repsonsible for giving me business opportunities and the (contract-specific) training necessary to perform my contracting role.
Is there anything stopping one business-savvy individual contracting with Visionstream, appropriating all of the loans/cash benefits, buying the vans and equipment, and then hiring those tecnhicians who wish to be employees as staff to perform the contract? Would seem to be a solution to both problems - Visionstream gets a contractor but no employee liabilities, and risk-averse technicians don't have to own their own businesses. There must be some arbitrage possible off the back of scale economies here. If it is really jobs that the union is concerned with, rather than simply Telecom-bashing, the union might even consider throwing in the savings from not having to fund a court case as some start-up equity for the new firm.
As a long term sufferer under cut price Telco contracts where they take all the profit and you slowly go broke as they drop your rates year after year telling you to pay your staff less when you complain, withhold work to force you to comply then decide for no good reason to "change the model" and bring in another company to take over your contract leaving you with nothing but debt. All this leads too is an old vehicle fleet you can not afford to replace, little or no health & safety, training or any sort of life as you work seven days a week to earn a very average wage. There are many people who have taken the plunge with similar stories. I would say this should stop all but the very brave or mad appropriating anything.
I've been in this industry for over 20 years now and slowly but surely seen it go from a career to a industry who's only goal is greed! No chance for the hard working man.......sad times.
They will bleed you dry and party on your companies grave
"A rep for Chorus countered that staff would have more flexibility over the amount of work they took on as owner/operators, plus tax advantages."
News is all bad for you, as you will only be sourcing income from one supplier the IRD will deem you an "employee" of that company so no tax breaks sorry.
Some already fat pigs will think they are going to get an inflated bonus if this goes through. Greed once again will see this cost this country and it is high time the bonus scheme for all management was wiped before any more hairbrained ideas are hatched!!!!
INE RESPONSE TO YOUR QUESTION,yes itspossible for you to start a company with visionstream and then hire staff,BUT the problem is VISIONSTREAM have confirmed it will not pay you more than the individul operator.The big problem is that the payment per job is far below market value so for you to make money,meens you have to pay your staff minimum wage $12.5 [my calculations say thats even to high
]eg VISIONSTREAM wants to pay you $60 to install a line to a customers premisses[exchange,cabinet,outside your house plunth connection,and then wire up a new jackpoint in whatever room you require for $60]i phone a random electrician out of the yellow pages yesterday and he quoted me to run the phone jackpoint in the house only $80 for 1.5 h work and material plus gst on top of that]and we do that however long it takes plus all outside road and exchangework for $60[gst is allready included in price]does this sound like a fear deal to you.$60 minus 30% govt tax,minus gst minus material,work out what its worth now for a 2hour job,yes we are been ripped off
If ever there was a time that workers need to act in a collective manner this is it,and it obvious that the EPMU is the vehicle the effected workers should use.
The EPMU has all the skills and expertise necessary to advise these workers in the correct manner.
My observations over a long period of industrial work
are that this situation and many previous situations similar to it, gives cause to extreme stress on the workers and there families,and is capable of causing much bitterness between the workers involved.
The employers will do there very best to split and divide to achieve there own ends.
One does not have to look to far back in NZ history to find ample evidence of workers being extremly disadvantaged by the type of arrangement that is being foisted on these workers which is very much a take it or leave it option.
I really believe that these workers would be well advised to join the EPMU and allow collective democracy to prevail, the union fees payable will go no where near the cost of representation and is a very small cost on each worker involved.
My personal view is that this exercise will end up being tested legally, if that is the path chosen by the workers and there union.
The outcome of which will more than probably benefit workers through out NZ.
Trevor Hanson
General Secretary
Maritime Union of NZ
See also comments on the NBR first-blood article of a couple days ago... http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/telecom-visionstream-draw-first-blood-against-unions-105653
To correct this article, Vision stream will NOT provide you with a loan to purchase a vehicle, instead you can lease a vehicle for a hefty sum.
The interest free loan is ONLY for tools and and testing equipment.
I think I will join the union. So, at the end of it all, you wont even have a vehicle to show as an asset for your "business", most testing equipment can only be used on a large network, most rate are way under priced.
In this time of recession we're getting screwed. 7days a week, are we robots?
Downer & Transfield contract to Chorus and employ staff. Their profit is what is left over after the job has been billed and wages paid.
Visionstream want to skim off the profit before the job is started and the contractor has to do the job on what is left over.
Guaranteed profit for visionstream, no guarantee for contractor.
Upon graduating in college I went straight to telecomunications industry in the Philippines. This kind of sub-contracting model exist also in the big operators back in the Philippines. That's the big reason why we leave our beloved country because the industry does not really care for us & our family's future.
We workers must oppose this kind of set-up and don't listen to some sweet talks. Ask the folks who experience this kind of job. To the Kiwis & EPMU, we Filipinos are on your side!
I predict the demise of the Telecom/Chorus network (especially the copper bits ) under this arrangement ,which is purely about maximising profits and a raised finger to the people who actually perform the work. I've survived the Post Office - Telecom transition ; the Telecom-Connectel debacle , the ConnectTel-Downer but this is the nail- in- the- coffin of what was a "Trade" in it's own right . 95% of my work involves maintaining the copper network which has been progressively run down .I work on cables , some laid back in the 1930's! So don't tell me about the billion dollars worth of fibre you're putting in the ground . We are already short of skilled people ; the new" imported" employees dont have the language or the skills required in most cases .Training was non existent for 10 years (average age late 40's). I could go on . The upshot is that me and a lot of other highly skilled & capable guys will not be here after 1 October . Suck on that one , Telecom ! Sorry, customers ! Good luck!
We must stop this cancerous growth here and now other wise this contracting model will spread.We have heard that managers down here would go on codes if they were 10 years younger, so if they are thinking that way it will only be a matter of time until they try to impliment it down here. So we have to stick together and if we do we will get there.It is time we have to send Telecom a message loud and clear WE have had enough of being excreted on from a great height by them. If we stand together who will do the work because we have to be skilled to work on their network. They were the ones that implimented level 3 minimum to work on the network so if they don't get the workers will visionstream get other contractors, unqualified to work on the telecom network or will Telecom make allowances ? SO STAY STRONG WE WILL WIN !!!!
Visionstream your time will run out quicker than you think so rather leave now whilst you can ,go back to oz .You obviously didn't expect us to fall for thisstory of owning a business.You paint a nice picture of how we will be making money ,what a lot of nonsense you know by having no overheads or responsibility you will be the one making money not the worker. So prepare for resistance like you've never seen THIS IS NZ NOT OZ.Hang in guys don't let them fool you we will win if we stick together remember together we stand divided we fall.DONT SIGN THEY WILL GIVE UP AND RUN
Meeting this arvo at Papatoetoe exchange - Downer EPMU Delegate feel free to come along. You are raising some very good points. There will be representatives there from all parties.
mate You are a fool!
I presume you are young and naive therefore you enter unwisely into an agreement that for many obvious reasons holds no profit for you in the short and long term.
Ask yourself...If so many reasonable adults inside and outside the industry disagree with this model and the contract after looking at the facts , can we techs be wrong? could we then be making a big noise about nothing? Do remember your family ( if you have one) trust and depend upon you to make wise decisions for their benefit. Signing this contract under its current conditions including 7am to 7pm, 7 days a week normal working hrs and the low pay rate is absolutely insane and wreckless. Add to that the financial burden you are taking upon yourself to carry all that stock at your cost to do the job/s. Mate! if visionstream themselves dont want to carry that heavy financial burden of stock purchases and storage, what on earth makes you think that you can do it better and more cost effectively? Do you have a million bucks stashed away somewhere to help you?
I give you a maximum of 3 or no.. maybe 2 months of operating this model before you realise your grave error in your haste to sign when you add up your actual earnings, It will be far less than what you are earning now with downer /transfield. and you will be owing a lot more to your current creditors you would no longer be able to pay back because of your foolishness and haste.
You mentioned below...
"I think you guys are looking too much at the negatives and missing any positives,"
After 2 or 3 months you will have finally realised that there are no positves in this model for any individual operator trying to prove "HE CAN DO IT"
Take this to your accountant and attorney to prove us all wrong. I did just that and can truthfully confirm that from those 2 professionals mouths, they confirm it is not what it appears to be and not a deal to be trusted and entered into.
I paid good money for their valued professional opinion on this matter giving all supplied info to them .
What you have just done was probably without talking to your lawyer and accountant first..
Score visionstream 1 : You 0
dont sign.i'd keep thinking about your outside the industry cabling business.make sure its owned by you,for you and you set the rates.this visionstream contract is not for anyone but them.best strategy go for a months holiday when downer pull out dont sign for vstm and watch there little crumble.run them broke and telecom will have to relet the contract.and visionstream will have to either review there offer or leave town.i'm boycotting all australian businesses.no more will they get my money.
Your intentions sound honourable. Be assured, theirs aren't.
Your best investment at this time would be to hire a contract lawyer.
Would you expect a lawyer to have the full range of skills to do your job?
ever get the feeling you're being blackmailed?
Don,t sign.
I have been contracting for 10 years after working for Telstra for 29 years,when I first started contracting I made really good money,now the wage my one man company pays me after expenses is half of what I earned 10 years ago.
Any variations that are time consuming and require materials will be taken off you as the contract is modified./ammended.
Examples are ,we used to get paid $120.00 for a basic install,an extra $38.00 if we had to put a lead in cable into the auxilliary port of a HSOJ (heat shrink openable joint) ,$22.00 if we had to use a utilux grease filled enclosure,$4.00 per metre to supply,haul/rod and rope extra 2 pair lead in cable over 20 metres to the house,an install using a drop wire aerial lead in cable had a payment to us of $155.00 plus the other payments if they were required.
Some times we could only claim the basic payment code but the others where there for jobs that required more materials/labour.
The contracting life was good until a mongrel of a company undercut all the other companies when the tender came up for a new contract with Telstra.This company was called Comet Satellite and Cable, they changed their name to B.S.A.(Broadcast Services Australia) some years back.The rate payed to us for an install then dropped to $80.00 with most additional payment codes gone.
It has been down hill since then,the rates we are paid are pathetic
many are leaving the industry,others stay because they feel trapped.
The KPI fines are another issue,even if a service goes faulty within a week of you working on it we are fined $140.00,so for an" in place service" that we are payed $44.00 for ,we can be fined $140.00.
I don,t now if this would be the case in NZ but all these companies are the same.
payments for fault repairs also dropped,once we could claim the primary fault AND additional faults,$70.00 for the main fault and $30.00 for extra faults,we could claim replacing the lead in cable,and claim for digging down to repair broken/blocked lead in conduit,also claim for replacing faulty 1st outlet,we also could claim replacing cable from the madison or luca box on the outside wall to the 1st outlet.For a fault we are now payed $70.00 and no more,it doesn,t matter how much work is reqd.
Insurance is another concern,you have to have a 3rd party public liability insurance policy ,10 or 20 million dollars.
This is in case you accidentally hurt someone or damage property while working as a contractor,if you are a pty ltd company you have some protection against a person taking you to court to sue for damages.I have been told that if you and your wife both own a house your half could be at risk if you were taken to court.You would have to ask a solicitor for advice on this.
As you can see there is a lot of risk here for very low payments.
If you stand firm with your union you have good chance of decent wages and conditions or the union may be able to collectively bargain for better rates if you think contracting is an option.
Here in Australia we have hit rock bottom as far as subcontracting goes,I do not know if it will ever recover,have a look at our subcontractors association web site ,TSCA it is part of the CEPU.
regards from the ozzie mozzie
all this trouble in nz like banks wont pay tax,and this visionstream contracts are caused by aussies.why are we putting up with this anti social behaviour.do we not have the power to throw them out.the setting sun clause.follow the setting sun and when you get to a large flat country stay there.
sub contracting
Don,t sign.
Posted by aussie subbie (not verified) at 12:27 am on August 11, 2009.
please email me asap.
2oceans12@gmail.com
What more evidence do the workers of today need?
Join a DESCENT union. Stick together so that any attacks from the companies are ineffective. We have proved that this works. These companies rely on threats and fear and they get pretty toothless once there is ONE example of consolidated resistance. THEY NEVER REGAIN THAT POSITION OF CONTROL AND FEAR. They are bullies and rely on their reputation rather than the track record.
STAND UP AND WATCH THINGS CHANGE!!
Enquire: electricalunion@xtra.co.nz
what visionstream is trying to do is a very poor effort at being a lines contractor.they are not a lines company.an example of a successful lines company is Northpower.Visionstream is a backyard operation operating out of other peoples backyards.as a business model it will make some money while missing out on the profits it could make using a different model.Its a parramatta road car yard operation.why anyone would deal with them is beyond me.telecom should be ashamed for even allowing such a company anywhere near our communications network.look at northpower and the way they do their work which is different but similar ,and the standard of the network and compare it to telecoms fragmented model.one network is well maintained the other is flogging a dead horse.its just poor business skills from the government and telecom and visionstream.follow the setting sun.
Time has passed, Chorus has called back bubble wrap boys to clean up fault fixing delays, Trico has stepped up to the mark in Patch 10 and employed most of the guys on wages and them themselves have taken on the owner operator model . There has been formal advice that hours will be dropped as the employer isnt making money on the job, dispatching seems to be inconsistent and the boys arent been utilised fully therefore not earning money all the time they are employed, upskilling has been involved for them learning office procedures which we guess when the dispatching gets into gear will involve completing after hours. There has been talk that the one man owner operators are on the verge of walking off the job. Very frustrating you can appreciate.
Fingers crossed that things sort out and that this gamble by Chorus of adding of an additional layer of administration in the performance of telecommunications maintenance hasnt meant the distruction of the industries workforce. These boys are fast losing faith in the decisionmakers in their industry.
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