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Key's education guru lashes out

National was "wrong" to backdown on class sizes, says education expert John Hattie - the government’s go-to guru on education reform, oft-quoted by John Key and Hekia Parata.

Professor Hattie's research on higher education while at the University of Auckland (he now lives in Australia) is said to have inspired the government's move to increase pupil-to-teacher rations to save $174 million over four years ($60 of which was earmarked for initiative to improve the quality of eaching"

“I would have kept to the policy”, Prof Hattie said on TV One's Q+A - although he conceded a backdown became inevitable due to political “heat”.

The Auckland academic still believes that in terms of class sizes, "the bottom line is it hardly makes a difference.”

Why? Because teachers typically don’t change the way they teach when given smaller classes, Prof Hattie said.

"They kind of had to back down, given the heat on class size. Like, it’s a very easy hot-button issue. Everybody thinks it’s obvious that reducing class size is a better thing. No one seems to understand, and they certainly don’t accept the research evidence, that it doesn’t make much of a difference. It’s just an emotional reaction."

Poorly sold
National had done a poor job selling the reforms, Prof Hattie said. It was an "a mistake, obviously" to lead its argument with a debate over class sizes.

Instead it shoudl have put the primary focus on how some of the $174 million saved would be spent on improving the quality of teaching, and performance pay.

“I certainly would have thought that if the contrast had been about reducing class sizes by one or two or increasing the teachers’ salaries, to me it’s an easy choice," Prof Hattie said.

"Now they’re going to have to find that money somewhere else, and I’m sure it’s going to come out of another part of the education budget."

Watch the interview here.

Comments and questions
21

As I've said previously, any idiot can see the class size but only smart people can see good teaching. And there are far more idiots than smart people.

Expert on what? Talking rubbish! We made sacrifices to send our daughter to a private school because she was discribed as an academic wreck when she went to Intermediate. In a class of 8 students she still struggled to achieve but eventually made it through to university, graduating with a BA (education). At 30 she now has a great job working in London for a major international company, whom she started with 4 years ago. If we hadn't made that sacrifice she would have ended up another solo mum on a benefit! This fellow has absolutely no idea what he is talking about! There is no substitute for small classes!

I'm confused, you made a choice to exit a broken state system and now your successful girl is paying taxes in another country? For the rest of us stuck in paying taxes for a tsunami of dross just how do we get talented teachers rewarded and those cruising get sent onto other opportunities?
Key & his cohorts have handled this issue with a total lack of committment and once again his leadership shows he is an appeaser and panderer to the tantrums of greedies.

Well said. We lack any serious leadership in this country it's frankly pathetic. Clearly Key and Co don't really believe in what they say.
Their political management when dealing with the hard issues is inept.

Well said. We lack any serious leadership in this country it's frankly pathetic. Clearly Key and Co don't really believe in what they say.
Their political management when dealing with the hard issues is inept.

He's Professor of Education and Director of the Melbourne Education Research Institute at the University of Melbourne, and was made an Officer of the New Zealand Order of Merit last year for services to Education.

Does that make Hattie a know-it-all? I don't think so. Ironically, Hattie has been highly critical of National Standards, yet the government has ignored his advice there. Obviously, the government cherry picks what it wishes to run with according to its right wing ideology.

There will always be a small percentage of "academic wrecks" that will need extra and closer tuition.
But how is that an argument against lifting the quality of teachers and teaching?
Please?

Getting pregnant and staying in a relationship doesn't really have that much of a connection to class sizes.

Looks like we'd be better awarding perfomance based pay to politicians, very cheap atm, maybe they would save some money on consultants and advisers as well

Any thoughts on the lecturers with 500 in a uni lecture threatre

A really good lecturer could do 10 000 simultaneously? Just eliminate the ones like above?

Know two teachers in junior schools that have had to move aware from individual programs as class sizes increased. Shows his assumptions may not be correct. Think he is more interested in defending his reputation as he has been the go to guy on this one.

Given the way the Government deals with this sector how would anyone be attracted to or wish to enter teaching as a profession

Too many people with strong fringe ideologies seem to comment on the NBR. It seems to the voice piece of the nutters.

Personally I think smaller class sizes are better, and the majority of the population seems to agree. Of course, nutters always thinks majority rule is wrong, but c’est la vie.

Of course a teacher will focus more time on individual students with a smaller class, it is only logical and this is a 'win', if you can call it that, for our kids education.

If you are not an idiot, why do you ignore research findings?

Yes yes, you and the fringe academics are all correct, eveyone else is wrong, yeap we get it, thanks for clarifying everything for us...

Why do I ignore academic studies? Probably why most of the world does as well, i.e. they will change their mind after stuffing up another generation of kids.

What a genius! He lives in OZ yrt comments on NZ education. Do we know how long he froposes to stay in OZ? Must be on a good wicket. Has he every been a teacher >He says the money must be found somewhere. Werte all the trips by various MP's Officials Hangers on re world economic scene & solution thereto accounted for in the Budjet 2 yers ago?

This fellow is a w*nker, a profeesional student having somehow got a nice meal ticket in OZ. Must find out how.

My son is in a brand new clasroom- it is not built to hold 38 desks- if these acedemics got out of theor comfy chairs and went to the actual schools - had a look- then made recommendations beased on facts not airy fiary research we might get somewhere.

Well, I must be the idiotic. Studied overseas, classes of 50, at university classes of 100, have 4 degrees, plus had fantastic teachers during school and parents who encouraged me to perform. What does this say about classes size, awesome teachers and parents

I'm not sure what it says. You clearly have learnt nothing about grammar or structuring your writing.

Perhaps if you had less people in your classes your teachers would have given you more one on one time and taught you the basics.

do you really think it would have made a difference? great teachers make the diffrence. ask me about science, history, geography, biology rather than focus on typos. kids achievements depends on the quality of teachers and parents commitiment to education tehy receive. I can see by your response that you are patetic and not focused on the big picture. every day on the newspaper some puritanists complains about grammar. languages evolve. obviously you haven';t. All you can do is avoid the topic, because obviously you have nothing to add. cheers