Telecom, Visionstream: owner/operators could work for anyone

a company with no resources on the ground or previous experience in NZ get awarded a major contract like this? On a Transit NZ type contract where points are weighted for attributes other than cost these guys wouldnt get a look in.

Visionstream wants no responsibility
They say it works in aus. yes it does for them cause they make the money and fooled those guys now they trying it here in NZ. Common boys don't get suckered into their model they here to make money and they don't care how .Look at how un professional they have handled the matter so far and they clearly now starting to panic cause we not falling for their sneaky Lil plan.HANG IN GUYS DON'T SIGN!!!!!1

Visionstream awarded Chorus Auckland patch - another blow against the industry at the hands of Telecom
By Rob Anderson, in Telco's, posted: 19-JUL-2009 10:16

NBR article, I heard about this last week through a colleague in the industry.

Telecom again chips away at the Telecommunications industry in NZ:

* Awarding patch contracts to the lowest bidder erodes contractor margins and ultimately errodes customer service levels

* Visionstream are implementing an "owner operator" system. The technicians take all the risk by shelling out up to $90k to set themsleves up, but are then dependent on Visionstream for their work - sounds like an ideal way to manipulate your workforce into lower rates.

* Pd off technicians are going to start looking elsewhere or even leave the industry - a skills sortage does nobody any good, especially customers

Visionstream wants to sub-contract its contract with chorus yet demands that a contractor may not sub-contract, and that a contractor’s employees are paid in accordance with relevant payment conditions and otherwise receive all relevant employee entitlements. Bit of a double standard isn't it?

It is remarkacable that every article around VISIONSTREAM -TELECOM[ALIAS CHORUS]always buds in with a comment,CHORUS is like a MAFIA sindicate dictating to everyone how to run there business and what model to use.Reading all the press releases you notice that VISIONSTREAM AND TELECOM contradicts themself over and over,THE CONTRACT that VISIONSTREAM gave the groups at the focus meetings clearly states what policy they will be implementing,re code prices,meetings,training ,etc,yet TELECOM has the cheeck to tell national press,that no dont read to much into the contracts,as we all now telecom will screw you over some more,STICK TOGETHER and banish them.If these contracts were fair and transparrent,and CHORUS likes to chip into every converation,THEN I ASK YOU,why doesnt CHORUS have a group meeting with all the effected workers to discuss the issues,why do they lock themself inside there offices when we want to talk to them,lets you wonder hey.

ACCOUNT TO ANOTHER TELEPHONE COMPANY IN SURPORT OF THESE TELECOM WORKERS TO-DAY, NO MORE GIVING MY HARD EARNED CASH TO A COMPANY THAT SCREWS IT'S WORKERS?? HANG ON MY FRIEND JUST TOLD ME THAT THEY STILL GET MY MONEY?.
THEY IN TELECOM DO ALL THE TELSTRA CLEAR, IHUG, AND OTHER TELECOMMUNICATION CONECTIONS UNDER SUB-CONTRACT.
DAM IT THEY GOT THEIR FINGERS INTO EVERY THING, COME ON GOVERNMENT STEP UP TO THE PLATE AND SORT THIS MONSTER OUT ONCE AND FOR ALL.

How many technicians will actually stay on and do this will be the question ( http://cables.net.nz/ ) . Already some other company's like Trico communications have made it known that they will be looking for techs on a wages contract so at the end of the day there is just going to be another middle man in this equation. So less money for the techs that will be doing the work. So it will probably be better in the long run to get out of this industry and look for something that will be a bit more stable than this

When visionstream says “an abundance of work; more than anyone can do right now” , what they mean is "we will require you to work 12 hrs a day ,7 days a week as laid down in the contract".
When visionstream say their contractors in Australia make a very good living out of it, that is because they pay much higher rates in Australia than they are offering us here in NZ , and their network is not in such a bad state of repair.

Re: Own hours!

by whataloadofcrap » Wed Jul 22, 2009 9:35 pm
the contract clearly states that you will be required by visionstream to be available from 7am to 7pm that is 12hrs per day! , 7 days a week. So where does the statement "own hrs come in" and the comment on the rosters schedule?. A true independant contractor does not answer to a roster of somebody else and sets his own real times of work AND whom he shall be working for at any given time.. He is also not totally dependant on one supplier for work. If you are able to work for other customers as visionstream claims , where is that possible on their roster schedule and the 7am to 7pm you will be contracted into? Their contract make you soley and totally obligated to vsionstream first and if you have the energy, time and health to work after your 12hr day you may go and do somebody elses work request which you would have to do cause of the low rates visionstream will be paying for your 12hrs of work!

What a load of rubbish. How can that be fair contractor labour practise .

All we encounter are acts of evasion when legitimate questions are asked and some statements on these forums have no response from vstream at all. What was said in the meet and greet and also the focus groups is not the same when you read the details in the contracts

This whole owner/operator business with its hidden traps and evasive tactics makes one question the genuiness of the offer and more important. " Do I want to trust visionstream with my future and that of my family?" already the first impression of visionstream is NOT A GOOD ONE!.So the only obvious option is to get out of this industry before I am totally reliant upon visionstream whom I obviously cannot trust.

.In essence then the visionstream OWNER/OPERATOR contract binds you exclusively to visionstream just as if you WERE an employee of visionstream but YOU, the so called" OWNER /OPERATOR" carry total cost burden of running a contract of this magnitude( 800bn), the quality of the network and meet commits is also your responsibilty to their client(chorus) and any loss you suffer is your alone. visionstream are not responsible for your failure cause you signed a cleverly worded OWNER / OPERATOR contract in favour of visionstream, the middleman.
The only winner here is the middleman , visionstream who sits high and dry with zero cost and maximum profit from the rates you earned that they simply take a huge portion of that you have claimed when they submit your claim to chorus!
What could be more easier than that.Clearly somebody with VISION (a sly aussie?) saw an easy way to make money off somebody else's back.

Yeah... the sly one must have thought... " let the NZ idiots think they have their own business while we just sit back and milk their hard labour from sunny Oz" '" we & our sheila's laugh all the way to the bank mate"

Now YOU techs need to aquire the same VISION / insight to not be SOMEBODY ELSES FOOL!

So what if it works in Oz, the techs there are poor fools to have been caught & trapped with this hair-brained scheme and they still have'nt figured it out yet

Don't worry about swine flu.
Worry about phone flu.
It's on it's way .
Try calling for help when your phone is dead

There could be a gain to the contractors by becomming more efficient and therefore making a gain over what you would earn in wages. Also who doesnt want 7 weeks of holiday if the contract is worked out over 45 weeks?

MMOORREE OOFF WHHAATT WEE PPUUTT TTOO TTHHEE MMI IINNI IISSTTEERR
We placed before the Minister, evidence of the current poor conditions being experienced
by the subbies. This included:
 Deteriorating incomes.
 Pressures to reduce health and safety standards.
 Unfair Contracts.
 Unfair treatment in terms of day-to-day disputes/disagreements.
 A subservient relationship to the main contracting companies with few, if any, rights.
We used information given to us by Sub Contractors, to demonstrate the extent of their
income deterioration over many years, evidence developed by our lawyers about unfair
contracts, evidence from subbies about widespread unfair treatment by the big companies
and evidence of the dictatorial relationship by the big companies over the subbies.
We will keep you informed of developments.

A LETTER FROM A OWNER OPERATOR in AUSTRALIA ( SUBBY)
“I'm a Subby on the Telephony side. I'm 100% up for a national blockade or whatever it
takes to get us more pay and fairer independent contractor law/s.
I've been in the industry a long time and I have seen it go from a respectable job with a
respectable pay to nothing more than terrible pay and a job people refuse to do
because they will go broke.
You went to work and were happy knowing that you have repaired a customer’s
telephone line to the best of your ability providing the best possible service because
you were proud to have a good respectable job.
It has become so bad now that some subbies are refusing IP services and any job that
is more that 3 ks from the pillar, (unless the job is a rural), and should the job have
second or third faults on it - forget it. Telstra gets what it pays for: 1 fault 1 pay.
We cannot possibly provide the same quality workmanship, and provide that excellent
customer service anymore. I'm currently completing 10 faults a day, sometimes 12, just
to keep myself afloat. To complete that many jobs a day I have to have each and every
job completed in 1 hour or less, and if it is not I have to simply get the dial tone to
socket and not even worry about completing a fast test from the socket. 90% of the
time the line will fail due to Telstra's lack of maintenance on the copper network, such
as bagged joints and sometimes up to 25 cni re reports in 1 joint alone.
Many subbies have stopped re reporting cni as Telstra are clearly not interested
anymore and every few months Telstra withdraw cni' from the system so you then have
to sit on the phone and start a new cni with the same details that you originally lodged
only weeks ago.
In a nutshell, I'm tired of being screwed into the ground as an independent contractor
and the Govt really needs to do something before things get so bad the skills shortage
in this area will get worse forcing us to find other work in industries that do not interest
us nor would we have the expertise as I do in the Telecommunications industry.
Whatever it takes, my company is certainly interested in joining whatever rally you
organise, and will travel for the event.”

look around australia has economically taken this country over,and look at how they want to treat us.if we dont deal with australian companies like visionscream they will go broke.these aussies are fleecing us and no more will buy from woolys countdown.they are taking us for mugs.dont sign nothing with visionstream run the pricks broke,when they cant fulfill their contract telecom will have to get someone else.it wont take more than a month.the network will self destruct and the general population is right behind you guys.dont do anything with australian companies,the banks,the supermarkets are introducing automatic checkouts in oz and there goes more jobs.theyre just screwing us into the dirt,but no more.

Thanks for the support of the aussie subbie who tells us the real truth about this situation. Visionstream tells us that all the subbies in aussie are making heaps of money and would never go back to wages! Just another example of how deceitful these visionstream bastards can be.