Women less productive - EMA boss
Yesterday, Green MP Catherine Delahunty released a private member's equal-pay bill that she says (if it ever gets before parliament) would "give teeth" to current employment laws by improving the ability to test for gender-based discrimination.
This morning on Mike Hosking’s NewstalkZB show, Council of Trade Unions (CTU) president Helen Kelly discussed the bill with Employers & Manufacturers' Association chief executive Alasdair Thompson.
Mr Thompson jumped into the pay-gap debate with both feet, stating it was simply a fact of life that women took more sick days, and were less productive - in part because of their "monthly" problem.
Shortly after the programme, Ms Kelly called for Mr Thompson to step down, adding "Leaders spouting this sort of crap makes it very, very difficult for women to assert themselves and to suggest there might be discrimination.
"I think anybody in a public position like he is should be showing leadership, not reinforcing old stereotypes like he is."
A transcript (courtesy Kiwipolitico; audio is on ZB's website here):
Alasdair Thompson: “Let me get down to tin tacks here. It is unfortunate, if you like, that men and women are different –”
Helen Kelly: [incredulous laughter]
AT: “– they are. The fact is, women have babies, they take time out of their careers to have babies. Women have — look, I don’t like saying this, this is how contentious this is, but here’s a fact of life.
"If you really want to keep some statistics, look at who takes the most sick leave. Why do they take the most sick leave? Women do in general. Why? Because, ah, you know, once a month they have sick problems.
"Not all women, but some do. They have children that they have to take time off to go home and take leave of. Therefore their productivity — not their fault, it’s … it may be because they haven’t got it sorted out with their partners, where the partners take more responsibility for what happens outside work.
"There are all of these issues, and none of this is covered in these statistics that this bill wants to sort out. Now, I’m sorry, I don’t like saying these things because it sounds like I’m sexist, but it’s a fact of life.”
HK: “Sure does, Alasdair, I’m glad you said them, it’s fantastic. I let you go on that one.”
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Comments and questions74
My bet is that the EMA dinosaur boss "AT" will be back in the job market by month's end.........
As an employer (of women and men), and a woman, I am appalled that this intellectual level is accepted by an association which is supposed to represent my business interests.
Thompson should be replaced immediately if the EMA wishes to retain any credibility.
Thompson is an idiot and a dinosaur. Attitudes and beliefs like this, especially from someone in his position, hold this country back. He should offer an apology to every single woman in this country and resign immediately.
Two rubbish comments earlier. Listen to the audio with an open mind. I heard it live and felt he was bravely going where others fear to tread. He told a truth with a certain diplomacy that anyone in the working world understands. Trouble is the feminazis will be al over this like a rash.
For most women, their families and children’s responsibilities come 1st, 2nd and 3rd before their work responsibilities – and rightly so – however this does create the impression that their full attention is never delivered in the workplace and especially so when an issue at home is happening. Not all the time with everyone – but ask any mum during the day who has a sick child at home where she would rather be and guess what her answer is? That is if you can find a woman at work that has a sick child at home. If they could, most would drop everything to get home as quick as possible to care for their child.
The reality is the mothering instinct is so strong that she often feels immense pressure to be at home in the first place and even more so if a child is sick. Then she picks up her woman’s day / woman’s weekly gossip mag to be confronted with all the hype about having a balanced life between work and home – because her 1st priority is her children and by the very nature of being at work, conflicts her sense of duty and responsibility to the child – and the employer always loses in that race, losing productivity, continuity and a degree of certainty... all at their cost and on-going cost.
Women could not change their stance on having their children as their 1st priority about as much as they could stop the tide from coming in – but it does create conflicting area’s of responsibilities where the work place /employer loses out most times – at a cost to them in lost productivity and intermittent presence / engagement.
Factor in the grossly unfair maternity leave legislation slanted against an employer and why would an employer hire a female of child bearing age over a male or female over 50 years old, if one didn’t have to expose ones business to all the additional costs, risks and uncertainty to the business with this demographic?
Not fair. Not right. Not PC – but reality.
The Neanderthals live on! These guys represent the attitudes of Fred Flintstones boss, Mr Slate. What a laughing stock. Can NBR get comment from members of the "Employers and Manufacturers Association" and perhaps track down the data and analysis underpinning the views put forward by their CEO?
Resignation please Mr Thompson. Your comments are archaic and an embarrassment to your organisation.
OK Mr Thompson - so using your logic, then gender pay should equalise when women reach aprox 45 and menopause kicks in. What an absolute twat.
Couldn't agree more
Methinks those who critisise Mr. Thompson's comments almost certainly didn't listen to what he said.
Maybe all the men here should then step up and take responsibility for thir half of the responsibility for looking after their sick kids and not just dumping it on their wives and girlfriends.
No - a woman's place is in the home - and it's been proven.
They have smaller feet by evolution - so they can get closer to the sink / ironing board / stove. They all want to get married in white - just so they can match all the other white ware - so there's ya proof!
Ridiculous realitybites. Not all women have children and not all women are affected by health issues. Gross generalisations by Dinosaur Thompson.
It's frightening that people are being called 'feminazis' for putting forth the idea that women and men should get equal pay.
God help us.
It all depends on what kind of jobs.....where is the fair go, guys?
AT is living in the Dark Ages.He probably still blames Eve for tempting Adam with the Forbidden Fruit.
The statement that women take time off each month because they have periods is bigotted and sexist.
I hope AT is forced to resign from his obviously highly paid position as EMA chief executive. He doesn't deserve such a job as he does not show females respect.If he demands respect himself then he must respect others and that includes the "lowly" females.
I am female.I don't have periods and hardly take any time off sick.The ones where I work that take heaps of time off sick are the males in the warehouse e.g one has a headache etc.
Pay is, & should be, for performance & team contribution -- not for *any* other 'notional' reasons, whatsoever.
Last time I checked, men & women weren't physically equal. Let's look for the positives --
1) Let's value women's contributions, both individually & to the team,
2) Let's help & support both men & women with their families,
3) Let's talk about & manage what's actually important, rather than some false & entirely notional theories.
and:
4) Let's not shoot the messenger, for happening to speak the truth. Maybe many women have 3% less commitment, maybe (some) offer 5% better team support?
5) Let's support, pay, build & treasure what really matters.
Socialist parking-meter lady's attack has nothing to do with the real qualities that make good staff & great workers.
Well if females have monthly 'health issues' that translate to productivity issues then most men would have weekly health issues such as a hangover or a late night watching sky sport that on the same basis would translate to productivity issues...
Some of these comments are so pc you wonder why the writers get up in the morning. AT speaks the truth, it just isnt fashionable to say so as there are so many bleeding liberals around.
No, no, no -- he said "some women" but that is drowned out by the shrill shrieking of the shrewish feminazis and their SNAG supporters.
And as generalisations go, making a link between women and motherhood is entirely reasonable as 90% of women are mothers, even allowing for the Labour party leadership.
As for Helen Kelly - we saw how much sense she talks during the hobbit fiasco caused by her and her brainless thespian lackeys.
They are being called feminazis for their pathetic overeaction, ie the sort of hysteria that greets any unPC utterance from a white male.
If you listen to the interview, AT simply states the truth.
He takes a big step given the PC world we are in, but its refreshing.
Why should we tread around these issues, stats are stats, facts are facts, and business is business.
Hey Listen - you have obviously been beaten to a role by a pregnant woman - or you are Alistair's son, I can hear the bitterness in your voice
All absolutely true but the feminazis and their fellow travellers make sensible debate on these issues impossible by going berserk as soon as any of their over developed sensitivities are challenged.
I thought Mr T was being extremely diplomatic with his phrase "monthly health issues".
A bit like describing Genghis Khan as having "anger management issues".
Wonder whether AT is paying all his/her employees fairly...man or single woman doing the same job.
Frankness can be refreshing in small doses.
PC Nazis ho hum.
Neanderthal comments about loss of productivity due to menstruation : poppy cock Alasdair.
How does Thompson put his brain in gear in the morning?
Perhaps two shakes of his member after ablutions at the grand ceramic recepticle in the morning.
What is the world coming to?
Here's to women with big or little feet and the tolerance to laugh at the EMA CEO.
As the great Penny Bright would say, those that attract the most flack are the one above the target ! AT must be right on target given the reaction from Helen Kelly....
Can't belive it, but Penny Bright's logic may apply to this situation......and jesus wept !
To all the people who believe someone should be sacked for saying something that they disagree with....grow a brain. It would be a great case in the employment court...
What happened to freedom of speech? All of a sudden you are only allowed to say certain things?? Maybe you should emigrate to China.
Has anyone above actually listened to the radio interview?
This whole thing is blown way out of proportion and Helen needs the reality check not Alisdair.
Agree - and if the Unions want stats to evaluate the pay gap between male and female - simultaniously they should also look at the stats on who has the most sick days, how often and see what trends that highlights?
Afterall - equality is the name of the game and one can't make an informed decision on only half the valid stats.
Or would those trends undermine the screaming feminists ability to read evidence that doesn't match their wishes?
Maybe Saudi Arabia is right. Don't let them drive and why did we give them the vote?
I heard the interview - he was dead right in his opinion - the woman on the other side must be a real "dick"
No pun intended!
No pun intended!
Good reason to resign from EMA and join the Auckland Chamber of Commerce. That impressive man Michael Barnett is far more politically astute. He would never say anything so dumb. Of course, he wouldn't even think it!
Maybe if more men took their fair share of the parenting duties, working mothers would take less sick leave.
With regard to "monthly" illness, I think popping a pain killer is more common practice than taking sick leave - Alasdair must be assuming women react to a little discomfort in the same way men do...God knows what would happen to the economy if men started menstruating!
I know that income protection insurance is more expensive for women because females get sick more often and for longer than male counterparts. Its just actuarial truth. The other side is that life insurance is cheaper because women live longer so perhaps they are more productive in the workforce for longer? Very silly call though on productivity based on sick leave figures alone, though I would still be interested to see those stats.
The guy has shot himself in the foot and the validity of any of his other comments by bring 4-weekly periods into the equation.
Do the facts support his arguement?
If yes then shouting abuse does not change them - nor will sacking him. If no then show the facts and watch the "burn".
Do the facts support his arguement?
If yes then shouting abuse does not change them - nor will sacking him. If no then show the facts and watch the "burn".
Alisdair's comments are offensive. Most women I know work far harder than their male colleagues, and still struggle to get equal career prospects. Alisdair achieved one thing though: he confirmed the wisdom of my recent decision not to renew the EMA membership for my business. Definitely won't be renewing now!
Boy - it clear like a recent case that got someone fired that most replying here haven’t even had the decency to hear the original material - mind you most don’t have the attention span to do so which is certain.
Alasdair is dead right and for once is stating something that is true - or he wouldn’t have said it. He has the facts and you moron’s don’t.
Wake up 9 years under nana Helen and you can not even think rationally anymore.
Good for you Alasdair
I am not sure I agree with Thompson totally but how about responding to his arguments rather than decrying in horror and demanding he resign.
Women do have babies and this effects their career, no shock there. As for the period issue, seems a bit loopy but is there any actual data?
OK - you're a brave man!
Check out the following video re MENs versus WOMENs brains..... Just how productive are you when you retreat to your NOTHING BOX & need to often lol
http://www.facebook.com/#!/video/video.php?v=105471081066&comments
OR
You could read a Globally recognised neuro surgeons studies re the different blends of women & men...and associated capabiliities! You may learn something as to generalise is not the brightest - however you have provoked a hiliariously futile debate.
& if anyone needs time off work for 'whatever' reason today - as we do now live in the 20th century....unless you're older than the baby boomers, x & y generations......any mature organisation today enables employees the option to home office - increasing productivity accordingly :).
This unfortunate attitude at the high level against women and colored folks is still pervasive in many nz companies and business organizations and sets the tone for all other senior managers. This is part of the reason why the economy has been so sluggish for many years compared to the Australian way of life.
I bet Helen Kelly is just such a little sweetie and that no-one has ever been on the end of any of her attacks.
Of course AT remarks could be offensive if you let it but NZ people have had an absolute gutsful of PC and it is so refreshing to hear when a spade is a spade.
Whether its Youth Rates on Breakfast or Equal Pay Bill on Radio , this guy is a complete dick and an appalling public face for the EMA. Is he a happy clapper as well?
Last chance job for him I suspect . Next stop street preacher.
I understand he maybe a Deacon in the destiny church
My feet are bigger than my husbands.
Get over it - dumb comment dumb person, not the end of the world. Much more important issues out there i'm sure. Did someone die?
Man flu is bad enough!
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