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Despite 018 gaffes, Yellow determined to stick with Manila

Actual results may vary.

UPDATE: We're not out of the woods yet

Despite a sudden plunge in the quality of its 018 service, the Yellow Pages Group is determined to stick with its new Filipino call centre.

And ironically, it's Telecom, which flicked off its directory business two years ago,  that's copping the PR disaster as Yellow persists with its trouble-prone outoff-shoring effort.

Everybody’s got a story about a shocking 018 experience recently; "recently" being the 10 weeks or so since Yellow started to offshore its directory call centre - formerly operated out of New Zealand - to Filipino company Teletech.

Personally, I’ve found about every second call requires me to tediously spell out each letter of a company’s name, or the response is swift but the completely wrong details txt to my cellphone.

Two recent examples:

1. Dialling 018 and asking for New Zealand Trade and Enterprise in Wellington, I was sent the number for one Tridon Industries.

2. Asking for the number for Alcatel Lucent in Auckland, the operator asked me to “please wait” several times, before saying “please hold for the number” ... which came through on txt as The Human Rights Commission.

It wastes my time. And what am I supposed to do, call back and ask for a refund? If you’re on the road with a cellphone, the only thing to do is trying your luck again in the 018 lottery.

Yellow CEO Bruce Cotterill said that training for TeleTech staff in Manila, which “includes Maori pronunciation, Kiwi accents and colloquialisms, and familiarity with New Zealand businesses and geography” is being “extended and enhanced”.

Why not extend and enhance it before going live?

No turning back
Whatever I think - or you think - of the dreadful Manila service, there will be no turning back (unlike Telstra, which recently announced a withdrawal).

“Yellow is committed to operating the 018 service from Manila in the foreseeable future,” said Mr Cotterill, who blames “declining economics” for the shift:

"The reality is that 018 call volumes and revenues are gradually falling so we need to find the most economic way of providing the current service as well as building new services. As a New Zealand-operated service the financial model would have meant substantial prices increases, which is not favourable to New Zealanders”

Now, a negative feedback cycle is in place. The shocking Filipino service is going to lead to fewer 018 calls, which in turn will ratchet up the need for further cost-cutting.

NZ back-up
While the enhanced training takes place, an increased number of 018 calls will be fielded by New Zealand-based operators, Yellow head of communications Greta Yardley told Keallhauled.

The percentage will vary at different times of the day. At times, 100% of calls are handled by Manila staff, said Ms Yardley.

However, the local fall-back is transitory. Yellow remains committed to 100% offshoring of the 144 directory positions (TeleTech actually employs 166 staff, but lower salary costs mean a considerable saving; Yellow won't put an exact figure on the amount.)

Telecom cops it
Former Telecom chief executive Theresa Gattung made a number of missteps, but one thing she did grasp was the “declining economics” that Mr Cotterill refers to.

All around the world, national telcos have flicked off their directory services. Sure, The Yellow Pages was a cash cow, but it was better to offload it (and The White Pages) while it would still get a good price. That is, before everybody twigged that Google was just as good an option, and directories started to pile up in a hidden corner of the office.

Telecom duly sold its directories business to CCMP Capital Asia and Teachers’ Private Capital the investment arm of the Canadian Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan.

The price - a tasty $2.24 billion. Most of it was given back to shareholders as a special dividend rather than being invested in broadband or 3G, but nevermind. It was a good haul, and Telecom was free and clear of a declining business.

Except ... every second person I meet - including many journalists - still think that Telecom owns the 018 service. Couple that with the fact that people are dimly aware that the telco is offshoring hundreds of positions to Manila and the lousy new 018 service often gets pinned on the now completely separate Telecom.

Offshoring can work
Speaking of Telecom, it’s done a lot more offshoring than Yellow, with around 750 positions now based in the Philippines. But many are back-office positions, or those drawn from Australian division AAPT. For New Zealanders, only broadband support is directly affected, and I’ve found that fine. There’s been the occasional rumble - as there always has been, in truth, about the vexed area of internet help - but nothing like the popular outrage that’s met 018’s Manila move. In short, it’s proved a solid component of Paul Reynolds’ cost control plan.

And so can iPhone
I should add that Yellow isn’t doing everything wrong.

Sure, Yellow’s custom version of Internet Explorer 8 is an abomination, rudely plastering over your existing favourites bar with an endless series of Yellow shortcuts that will take you weeks to manually extract. It’s an awful piece of software development by every known human standard, and Microsoft deserves collateral brand damage for allowing it to happen.

But Yellow’s just-released iPhone app is free, and works well. Better, it can sense your current location, and only search for businesses in that area. It’s simple, slick and useful. If you’re lucky enough to own an iPhone, you need never infuriate yourself with 018 again.

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Comments and questions
25

When calling to ask for the number for Warren & Mahoney in Christchurch I received the number for 'B-Money Wize Ltd' in Wainoni. Not even close. I then tried to complain - the Philippines call centre couldn't put me through to NZ, they gave me a number, which was for Telecom. Telecom then put me through to Yellow and I sat on hold for 15 minutes before figuring I could better direct my simmering frustration at my staff. Luckily, we are yet to outsource HR to the Philippines, so at least the end result of the f%^$ up can be dealt with locally.

We spent 5 minutes on the phone the other because the Filipino couldn't understand the Pakeha NZ way of saying "Cobb and Co, Manukau"

My call to 018 to get a number took over 4 minutes. I had to spell out the name 3 times. Was put on hold twice. Spoke to two different people. Realised I wasnt going to get the number I phoned for. End result - I hung up.

I disagree with Chris' positive view the Yellow iPhone app - it gives the wrong results, wrong neighbourhoods and misses some listings completely.

It has numerous poor reviews on the AppStore - go read them. I've found the Zenbu app better.

there's the other way of finding out phone numbers/addresses/locations etc...

google.

It's the only way.

I called 018 seeking Active Physio in Epsom, Auckland, and was given the number for a video shop on the north shore. Calling to find out the number for Air Bus (the Auckland Airport bus) produced similarly hilarious (although time-wasting) results.

A work-around I have discovered is to call Telecom's 123 help number, explain what has happened, and a real, live NZer will find the correct number for you at no additional cost. Someone who didn't want to waste several minutes talking to the Philippines in the first place, might suggest this work-around be used instead of calling 018...

I tried twice. Never again ever. It was always going to be the disaster which it clearly has become.

In our office of 15 staff we have 1 set of yellow pages they are last years and are used to add height of a PC monitor, we rejected this years Yellow Pages delivery, Telecom were very timely in selling this part of their business.
Today I tried 018 and got a recorded message, " You're call couldn't be connected please try again later, the solution was to call my wife and ask her to Google it, right number first time and cheaper than the 018 call.
Guess which service I'll be using next time ?

Peter Roberts
Heritage Tiles
www.tile.co.nz

I called 018 Directory last week to get the number for the Auckland restaurant Vivace. Fairly quickly I was sent a text for the Vintage Wine Company. Meanwhile a friend pulled out their Blackberry and Googled "Vivace and Auckland" and had the number within a minute - there's going to be a whole load of pink slips handed out in Manila soon and every other call centre hotspot... good job.

In todays age why ring and ask for a telephone number, we have the Web, look it up online and also find info regarding the business.

(Unless the business has not yet woken up to the fact that people do go online to find them)

More tales of woe - try this combination: "Te Ngae Superette". They struggled with that one, and this is where local knowledge would have helped - an NZ operator would have known to try '4 Square', 'dairy' or 'IGA'.

Offshoring has its uses but much custoemr service work has a qualitative element that is hard to teach.

I wouldn't expect an NZ call centre to provide this service for the Phillipines, so why expect it to work in reverse?

I along with my ex workmates are Post Office and then Telecom trained 018 operators, International Directory Assistant Operators,010 Operators and 111 Emergency Operators. We were all multi-skilled with many years of experience. Telecom decided to get rid of our skills,sell us off.
We were efficient and damn good at our jobs!
The same is now happening to the field engineers who fix your phones.
I could cry at the service customers now recieve.
At least we have made the shareholders happy.
Customer satisfaction let alone their workforce,do they care?
Their actions say not.

It would be interesting to know if Yellow reads these and other criticisms. I suspect not!

Forced to use 018 when down in Dunedin recently (and no immediate PC access). Absolutely frustrating! And we lived in the Philippines for years! But their accent and poor listening skills still frustrates.

Unfortunately I have found that not all phone numbers that are in the printed telephone directories are on the web. Two different friends, one in Christchurch and one in NP, both who have had the same number for decades, do not come up when I type in their details in the White pages online.(But they are both in the printed books)
This may happen to business numbers in the Yellow pages online as well. So this problem combined with the 018 problem could mean that your business cannot be found. Not a good thing, especially in the current economic situation, they really need to get their act together, I have sent email messages to them via the website but never had a reply not have the numbers become available!

...A2B rentals, had to be spelt out around ten times.

I wondered why the recent service had been rubbish, figured I just had some locally domiciled foreigner.

We only use them because they are cheap, not because they are good.

A few years ago there was a news article about US companies ditching Philippine call-centres because of the fast falling standard of English. NZ doesn't seem concerned and is obviously happy to pick up this slack - cheapness before quality seems to be the motto.

Try google - it does a better job in most cases.

Joining the club...I asked for a Nelson number while on the road and was given a Richmond one. I'd like a refund, too! And some poor devil ringing NZ from England about a house he had bought was given our number. Hmmm.

What's wrong with keeping NZers in jobs? Where did this whole destroy-our-own workforce philosophy become a superior one?

Wanted soundcraft Auckland, told no listing. Went online with same details was there all right. Wanted a number with the sir name Cunningham in Tauranga, told no Cunningham's in Tauranga. Well there are 18 listed... and we pay for this service?

Typically after asking for a simple place name we go to spelling using intenational 'Alpha Zulu..." then they get it wrong. I call back and explain - the hapless operator then puts me on to a supervisor and we go around. Finally I get to talk to an NZ person and the number comes back instantly. If this type of degradation of service was experienced in China the perpetrator would be taken the back of the HQ and have a bullet put through the back of the head. Here they probably increase the bonuses. Totally useless. Sell your Yellow shares buy Google and watch Google take this space - like taking candy off a baby.

Philippine English accent is American English specific such that variations in pronunciation would leave the listener unable to comprehend the word because Filipinos understand the meaning by relying on the correct spelling. So, if the word "writer" was dictated with a British or Australian accent, the Filipino would not be able to understand it because the "t" was heavily stressed and "r" has been omitted as opposed to the American pronunciation where the "t" is soft and the "r" is clearly audible.

SOrry to say guys but Filipinos are more adapted to the American Accent, because they look up to the US as "the standard" including the accent because of their status as a former colonial power. People there are not even familiar with the kiwi accent. Telecom should relocate its call-centers to former "British" colonies. Going to China will make it worse. Better yet, bring them back here...

Dial 018. Ask for any number at all. Laugh and laugh at the result.

I tried three times, looking for Fruit World Grey Lynn.

First result: No listings for Fruit World at all.
Second result: Only one Fruit World, in Henderson. No others, no matter how many times I prodded.
Third Result: After quite some confusion about "Fruit Word" vs "Fruit World" (the accent thing, I guess), I got a number for Fruit World... in *Greenlane*. How I laughed.

(Mind you, when I finally got through to Fruit World Grey Lynn the lady on the phone didn't know what a radish was...)

I've frequently experienced mnany of the same frustrations with the 018 service. What effect is the limited workabality of this essential service having on the NZ economy (and individual businesses alike).

We need a serious competitor in this space!

Philippine English accent is American English specific such that variations in pronunciation would leave the listener unable to comprehend the word because Filipinos understand the meaning by relying on the correct spelling. So, if the word "writer" was dictated with a British or Australian accent, the Filipino would not be able to understand it because the "t" was heavily stressed and "r" has been omitted as opposed to the American pronunciation where the "t" is soft and the "r" is clearly audible.

Wow. So much talk of inefficiency and misunderstandings and whatnots. It's surprising nobody has dropped the word "stupid" or "idiot" in their comments.

And I though Kiwis are very nice people.

You shouldn't be blaming the Manila offshoring nor the accent nor anything at all. They didn't ask for it. It so happened your country found it as the most economic way to cut unnecessary cost.

A lot of places now doesn't really use phones or directory, they rely immensely on technology, innate geography and common sense before resorting into giving an agent a hard time for a simple work that can be done by any ordinary human being.

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