Wheedle shuts down indefinitely for systems update
Trade Me rival Wheedle has closed for an indefinite time to update its systems.
The auction site went offline earlier this afternoon following the revelation that people could change easily change the price on other member's auctions. Concerns were also raised about passwords being sent, unencrypted, by email.
Wheedle has gone offline three times since its Monday morning launch.
This time, it will be an extended stint as the site comprehensively retools. An independent review of its systems is promised before the site re-opnes for business.
In terms of current auctions at the moment Wheedle closed, and whether they would be reanimated or the slate wiped clean, general manager Carl Rees told NBR he was seeking advice on the site's legal obligations. He added, "Either way we will do the right thing." He could not confirm how many auctions were open at the time of the shutdown, but expected to know tomorrow morning.
Auckland software developer Ben Gracewood, who just hours before told NBR Wheedle as an 'abomination' that needed to be scrapped and rebuilt, was quick to praise the decision.
"Good call Wheedle. Come back fighting when the site is all good," Mr Gracewood tweeted.
Indian outsourcing 'not the problem'
Earlier today, Wheedle general manager Carl Rees confirmed the Christchurch-based company had outsourced website development work to India (there was little choice after a reader spied a Wheedle ad on an Indian job site).
Does that make it the highest profile offshored failure since 2degrees Indian-developed website fell over?
No, said Mr Rees. Wheedle had people on the ground in India exercising oversight. The problem was inadequate pre-launch testing.
Ratu Mason, with the Wellington office of Lateral Security, told NBR an $8 - $15,000 penetration test would have easily uncovered the security issues with Wheedle. He suspected owners had pushed forward the go-live date. And as it was, the social media mob performed a comprehensive audit. The crowd-sourced version was free, if intensely embarrassing.
Wheedle is backed by Rich Lister Neil Graham, who told NBR over the weekend the site had a $10 million+ budget and would be supported by a multiweek TV and radio ad campaign. Mr Graham said there was room in the market for another auction site. Trade Me, which on Monday lifted its auction fee by 5.3%, had become greedy and arrogant, Mr Graham said.
ckeall@nbr.co.nz
RAW DATA: WHEEDLE STATEMENT.
WHEEDLE TO CLOSE FOR UPDATES – WILL RELAUNCH
Wheedle, the new online buy and sell website, has today announced its intention to close for a thorough update of its systems and processes.
Wheedle managing director Carl Rees says the introduction of a new competitor in the online trading market has attracted an exceptional response.
“We have received an extraordinary level of interest from the New Zealand public, demonstrating the real demand for competition in this space,” says Carl Rees.
“However, operating issues were identified and our determination to ensure we can provide a level of service we are satisfied with means that we have elected to close the site until we can complete a comprehensive audit of our systems and make the necessary improvements.”
Mr Rees says Wheedle will be made available again when the management team are completely confident its performance and processes meet the standards expected by New Zealand consumers.
“We will return to the market when we are totally satisfied that the site will provide the high level of experience we want our customers to enjoy.”
“In the meantime, however, we would like to thank the New Zealand public for their interest and support, and we look forward to reintroducing Wheedle as soon as possible.”






















Comments and questions39
This is EXACTLY the right response. I only hope that they've heard the feedback from NZ geeks and find the right partners to help them with their audit and redevelopment.
Congratulations on a well thought out proposition.
I look forward to your next venture.
Wow, that was very short-lived. I look forward to seeing them back and A LOT better than their first attempt.
I'm not one to throw dirt at them, but it is astounding they went to market with such a poor offering.
This is the right call. I hope they tap into New Zealand's awesome web developer community and find the right team to make an awesome site.
mad
Well, it was a bad start, but good on him for making the right call now. It can't have been easy, even without baying shareholders to answer to.
Let's hope that when it comes back, they've fixed the dreadful security holes properly.
There are lots of good NZ software firms who'd be happy to help out - we do charge more than $22kpa for a software architect, though.
Dang !
Who are the developers?
Their own Indian team by all accounts:
http://jobsearch.naukri.com/job-listings-Asp-net-Developers-2-x-Senior-Positions-Wheedle-Ernakulam-Kochi-Cochin-5-to-10-021012000040
You get what you pay for. Freelancemarket.co.nz
Was that one by the same developers? It looks like a bit of a fail too :P (try searching with no keywords)
Thats pretty sad to hear... Also there does not seem to be any trader name verification happening - someone was using the C-word as their alias.. not a good look
I'm laughing out loud because these errors are basic ones that most experienced developers should know of already. It seems to me that they have put so much money into a product and launched it without seriously testing it.
A great pity - this has been a source of much entertainment over the past 48 hours.
The only option. To continue would be to drive over the cliff with full culpability.
Wow. This will be in text books for years as a great case study of how not to launch an online system. Maybe it will even come into colloquial language "Bugger, I just did a Wheedle".
Based on the definition here, maybe people wont be so quick to suggest they have been wheedling...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wheedle
Brilliant! Doesn't sound like a good name for a website in the first place then.
Might the rush to launch have contributed to the "inadequate pre-launch testing"?
Nope. As previously discussed, the problems were designed in from the start and created by inadequate management before that.
http://jobsearch.naukri.com/job-listings-Asp-net-Developers-2-x-Senior-Positions-Wheedle-Ernakulam-Kochi-Cochin-5-to-10-021012000040
Lets hope the boyz get everything ironed out for the re-launch. The marketplace needs competition and it would be devastating to see it go from Wheedle-Dum to Wheedle-Dummer.
"Inadequate pre-launch testing."
No kidding. Not only is that obvious, it's gob-smacking. How could you, (and why would you) ever launch a website like Wheedle without hugely comprehensive pre-launch testing? It's internet 101. Duh.
This is the first thing they've done right.
Should have hired NZ developers - didn't see Xero having any of these catastrophic startup issues?
Its funny because from what I hear Xero was developed in a fairly adhoc manner but they do have some very capable people there who clearly knew something about building for scale. I don't know so much about needing NZ developers as just people with some experience having built some public facing websites!
I highly recommend reading the job ad, a selection:
Company enjoying strong growth
TDD and/or Unit testing experience a must have!
Minimum 5 + years commercial experience in ASP.NET:MVC & MS SQL Server 2012
Wheedle Limited is a successful online web service business with its head office located in Christchurch, New Zealand.
Wheedle has a software development business with ten fulltime employees located in North Paravur, Cochin.
The Cochin business has been in operation since 2011 and the time is right to grow the business and increase our potential within the global marketplace. To help us with this expansion we require a highly skilled developer professionals achieve our goals.
Plus they are a Hot Employer!
http://jobsearch.naukri.com/wheedle-jobs-careers-890880
http://jobsearch.naukri.com/wheedle-jobs-careers-890880
NZ developers are no panacea, Hell Pizza's sql injection by design was hardly optimal
Hells system was built by a design agency not a software development house - bit of a difference. Plus I wouldn't be surprised if that agency outsourced it overseas.
They didn't outsource it at all but back in those days everyone was cowboys too, not just 'outsourced overseas' developers.
10 million and can't even get the basics right. Someone needs a major a** kicking. Might as well walk away now before more money is wasted
The geographic location of the programmers isn't the issue. The experience of the people designing and supervising the software is the problem. I suspect the Indian team lacks strong and experience oversight and leadership and was given a brief that was something along the lines of "build a site like this one" and pointed at TradeMe.
The current team can probably fix it but they need some proper leadership (and maybe a few new senior/lead developers)
yep, no one of note in the team - building websites is a far cry from an ecommerce platform - I bet the "experts" they were relying on are saying "we've never seen anything like this "
Given how much they have ripped off the TradeMe user interface I think the brief was very simply "copy that site please!". Your analysis is bang on.
The location does factor, in the sense that they were paying the *senior* developers <28k NZD. That's less than even the most inept 1st year programmer would get in NZ. What do you expect when you pay so little? There are some amazing Indian programmers, CodeProject is testament to that, but from talking to some of the Indian students I studied with, most of them knew that the quality of code required to get a job is much lower than here in NZ.
The real issue is that the business wasn't thought up by and made by a developer, or at least someone with some actual technical knowledge. If you look at almost any successful web startup, it was inevitably started by someone who actually built it. This is the equivalent of someone deciding they want to invent a way to turn water into gold and then paying someone else to do it. Without the incentive for the project to succeed, the development is just a paycheck, nothing more. Why would you pour you heart and soul into developing software when you're getting paid less then a McDonalds employee?
The issues that shut Wheeler down today were 'school boy' errors, omissions like security in today's age are inexcusable. The comment about passwords possibly being exposed? It's extremely unlikely considering the above event that any encryption/hashing of passwords was happening. I guess you get what you pay for.
I reckon New Zealand is the best place in the world to live, full of beautiful landscapes and awesome people. So it seems so incongruous to have this tall poppy syndrome where people who take risks and put themselves out there get slain for making a mistake. Yeah wheedle made a major mistake, but at least they are out there doing it, trying to break a monopoly as well as build a business. Why don't you awesome software developers give them a call and make a deal to develop the site further for them, do a profit share or something, lets give these guys a positive steer in the right direction.
I think most of the inane tall poppy comments on here come from the Morgan / Drury 'school of nasty'. Just rediculous. People have short memories when it comes to Trademe. They've had their share of stuff ups. All whilst Sam Morgan was at the helm.
This whole launch has been a shocker. However, one question. Did TradeMe launch without any major hitches? I suspect not. Difference being that now people are less tolerant and problems are aired quicker. Wheedle should have known that!